The price of #2 heating oil

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johnw
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Fuel delivery used to be more

Fuel delivery used to be more of a seasonal job,a bigger portion of drivers were only hired for the heating months.But with the lack of drivers most companies are find work for their core drivers year round ......Companies that are expanding into LP and other services are investing in training drivers ...to keep them on.

Toolsmith
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PM: first all the CO2 is

PM: first all the CO2 is going away, then all the O2 is going away. LOL

Tom C
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There is a peak demand right

There is a peak demand right now, it would be hard to keep the workforce necessary to deliver under these circumstances on the payroll year-round.

Islander
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We love our pre pay plan, for

We love our pre pay plan, for the business, haven't lost out yet. We also heat our home with wood, thinking of adding a coal stove to replace a woodstove.

johnw
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Out of No2 at Irving, Citgo

Out of No2 at Irving, Citgo and Gulf at South Portland terminal ditto at Bangor Irving, Searsport and Newington.......two hours plus waits for trucks to load at Sprague and Global terminals in S Portland......WHY would we ever need more storage in Maine...... fuh duh cause it gets really cold sometimes.....Maybe n Irving tanker in to Portland Thursday.........

Bruce Libby
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Having a good relationship w/

Having a good relationship w/ dealer pays.
I was getting low last week called my dealer for a delivery last weekend. Surprisingly he showed up Thursday night 930 pm and filled me.
I just spoke with him ,I couldn't find slip, he told me if I wanted one gallon today, it would be "no", as John said awaiting a Irving tanker !

pmconusa
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Toolsmith: I concur with

Toolsmith: I concur with your assessment. No need for the LOL because L has nothing to do with it.

Islander
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Glad we have a fuel tank for

Glad we have a fuel tank for fueling the boat in the back of the truck, my son said it beat lugging 5 gallon jugs to fill up an elderly neighbor.
And how many of the folks not getting a delivery are not on auto fill, but shop around just when they are getting low? We did not get a propane delivery, which is ok since we still had a decent amount and just use it for cooking.

Bruce Libby
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Past decisions made we

Past decisions made we probably should have not made.
In early 70's a proposal to build a refinery in Sanford ,fed by a pipeline from So. Portland was
shot down .
In subsequent years as we deal with the ebb and flow of oil I wonder what a difference this could have made.

Ugenetoo
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BINGO, Bruce.

BINGO, Bruce.
Enviromaniacs shot that down as well as the one proposed for Robbinston in Downeast Maine.
The same tender snowflakes (or just flakes) that declared So. Potland a no go zone for crude petroleum.

pmconusa
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The strategic petroleum

The strategic petroleum reserve can hold about 700 million barrels of crude oil and currently actually hold just over 650 million barrels. This is about 35 days supply at current requirements. It is however limited by the fact that to get this out of storage the capability is just over 4 million barrels per day. Then the oil has to be refined for use which adds to the time between need and use. Just envision the chaos this would cause if the Saudis or anyone else for that matter removed a large chunk of our needs from the market and the jump in the price of the oil available?

This little scenario illustrates just how stupid our government is. When the Saudis and their gulf OPEC partners shut off the taps in 1973 we hunkered down and managed till the Saudis realized that without the inflow of dollars they could no longer buy the food they needed but do not produce and they stopped. They would stop their monopoly practices now in an instant if we blockaded the Straight of Hormuz and the Port of Jeddah and did not allow ships bearing food to enter.

johnw
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The problem isn't the supply

The problem isn't the supply of oil, LP, natural gas, or gasoline it's the infrastructure to get it to the consumer.... the eco Nazis fight every pipeline every storage expansion, every railhead....The world is awash in oil.

pmconusa
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johnw: I hate to bash your

johnw: I hate to bash your bubble but the world is not awash with oil. Oil is a commodity that does not reproduce itself when consumed. The reason we use oil and gas is that the cost to produce it is less than the cost of the energy necessary to produce it. The United States as well as Saudi Arabia and the other oil surplus producing countries have vast reserves of oil and gas. The U.S. is not producing more because the cost to produce it is more than that of other oil producing areas. When these areas no longer produce a surplus to their own needs the price will have risen to a point where the U. S. oil reserves may become economical to produce, just as we did when the price hovered over $100 per barrel. The problem is U. S. consumption would reduce the reserves in short order and when it cost to produce equaled the cost necessary to produce it we would stop producing it. This is what is already happening in Venezuela and why they continue to try and persuade the Saudis and Kuwaitis etal. to keep increasing the price. Iran and Iraq are quickly getting to that same point.

renewable energy is already inefficient and still limited. Even if we harness all the energy of falling water (dams), the sun and wind, if we don't rein in its need we will approach a point where consumption exceeds supply. As I have pointed out elsewhere, our economic system is consuming energy faster than it is being produced and there will come a point where the two curves cross resulting in rationing. What I am referring to is food or human fuel. It is not distributed evenly and those who have it in surplus are reducing that surplus at a faster rate. The consequences are already appearing in varying areas of the world where civil war is being waged to alter the distribution or people are migrating to where it is still in surplus.

johnw
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pmconusa yes eventually we

pmconusa yes eventually we will run out of oil, but in your world view it appears that will be a non starter because most of the world will have starved to death before that...BUT all of that aside the current issue is infrastructure......and delivery.

Melvin Udall
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Eventually, my progeny will

Eventually, my progeny will control the universe.

But don't fret about it; we'll all be long gone by then.

Oh, and Dark Chocolate will be abundant and free, without limits.

pmconusa
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Why are we not producing the

Why are we not producing the vast amount of oil still in the ground in Texas, the Gulf, Oklahoma and other areas of the west? Because it costs more than oil produced in Saudi Arabia and other countries of the Middle East and Indonesia and Nigeria and Venezuela. Why is it cheaper? Because the energy used to produce it is less than the energy obtained from it. When overpopulation consumes, not the food supply but the surplus needed to reproduce it the following year and nature hits us with a drought there will still be coal, oil and gas in the ground but no one to consume it. If you fail to see that this process is happening in other areas and has begun in the United States because we have adopted an economic system and an exchange that requires one to work for a living. Well, children can't work, the elderly can't compete with the young adults for the few wage paying jobs that exist but they all eat and in nearly the same amount. If the country doesn't produce enough food or something with which to trade for it you have migration or civil war. Ask yourself why, when our country produces enough food to feed many more than our population can consume we have food banks and the government hands out money to select individuals to buy it?

johnw
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pmconusa...years ago I read a

pmconusa...years ago I read a book titled The Prize one of the basic rules of the oil companies was to sit on their domestic oil and attempt to pump the Mideast dry.... That's a really abbreviated version., but the simple facts are that if you are sitting on a few hundred million barrels of oil here in the USA it's like money in the bank collecting interest ....When the other guys is gone mine is worth a lot more......

Melvin Udall
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So many failures in pmcon's

So many failures in pmcon's world....you'd think book sales would be through the roof.

pmconusa
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The laws of supply and demand

The laws of supply and demand apply to food as well as non-reproducible commodities. The only difference is one can exist without non-reproducible commodities as our ancestors did when they roamed the earth in search of food. Oil prices as are all other non-reproducibles such as gold and silver by the difference between the amount available and the amount desired. When the supply is constricted, as it is in a monopoly market or when the cost of its production exceeds it value in the market place, the price goes up. When there is surplus, the price goes down. You can avoid the price hike if you reduce demand by doing without. If you don't have money (exchange) with which to buy food you must rely on charity (government). Since no one has surplus food, but perhaps money to buy it, you can survive only if someone gives you enough money to buy it. Evidently private charity is insufficient so the government issues cards with value in order to provide it to those who qualify. But where does the government get the money to provide this service. According to the Constitution it is supposed to tax to obtain it. If it did, those being taxed would balk because the government was taking money from them and giving it to others without their approval. To avoid this the government borrows (prints) money and is currently over $20 trillion in debt and shows no signs of anything save more borrowing. It is not bad enough that the government borrows, but pays interest on it to boot. When the population starts consuming more food than is produced, eating currency will not make up the deficiency in ones diet.

As have indicated, the United States is rich because it produces more food than its population consumes. The problem is it is the government that controls the means of its distribution through the tax code and borrowing. That distribution is not made uniformly to everyone but only to those who either donate or support the officials who wield this power. In a democracy it allows 51% to exploiter the other 49%. They have done their damage, both Republicans and Democrats, and neither is willing to undo it. In the process they have employed a system that will collapse of its own weight as the numbers of our population continue to increase, while the production of human fuel continues to decrease.

Ugenetoo
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PM You ever raise a garden?

PM
You ever raise a garden?
I mean a real garden that you could depend upon for at least half of your intake?

Mike G
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Only if you could pop a deer

Only if you could pop a deer or two chewing on your sprouts.

pmconusa
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Ugenetoo: The answer is no

Ugenetoo: The answer is no and I have never known anyone who did. Brunswick, for example, has a population of about 20,000 and not a single person grows anything, let alone enough to serve half their needs. Based on wheat alone, 1 acre, under ideal climactic conditions particularly with regard to water just barely provides enough kcal to feed a family of four. However, you would have to sell all of it and at $5.00 per bushel you would net not even enough to pay your property tax.

I did know a family when I worked in South Dakota who had 1000 acres of corn and farmed it themselves. However, corn was even back in the 1950's subsidized by the government. They unfortunately did not own the land nor the equipment they used to farm it. It was owned by the bank whose loans financed both the farming operation and the equipment for which they paid interest. The subsidies were provided in order to insure the banks would get their loans plus interest. This was not true in the 1930s and when we had a severe drought and the wheat crop alone fell by 40%, the farmers could not make enough to pay their loans and the banks foreclosed and took ownership. In order to get the farmers back the banks convinced the government, they had bought and paid for to provide crop insurance and parody pricing and lured borrowers back to farming. Tariffs and quotas on imports have protected farmers ever since. I know a few rich bankers, but I don't know any rich farmers.

Most of you are too young to remember the time when the farmers were actually being paid to keep land out of production because surpluses were building up, not only in grains, but dairy products because there was no international market for them. With the population explosion since the early 1900s many countries must now import grains in order to feed their population and as a consequence we are now arbitraging our grain crops like we did gold when we could mine it for less than the world price. Grains contain nearly 5 times as many kcal per 100 grams as any other food product. Israel for example exports these lower calorie but higher priced fruits and vegetables in order to buy grain which is much cheaper per 100 grams than say oranges because it has less labor content per unit. Further details are available in my book including proof of the ultimate outcome if we continue utilizing the current economic system.

Melvin Udall
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= no.

= no.

Aren't you glad you asked?

Bruce Libby
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Was anyone shocked ?

Was anyone shocked ?

Ugenetoo
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No wonder you have such a

No wonder you have such a convoluted view of food and the agricultural system that supports it.
You can't even feed yourself.

Tom C
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. Brunswick, for example, has

. Brunswick, for example, has a population of about 20,000 and not a single person grows anything,

Juniper Edge Farm in Brunswick Maine

Crystal Spring Farm, Brunswick Maine

Little Creek Farm Brunswick Maine

Should I add fishmen, lobstermen, etc?

Mike G
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I think we have all seen the

I think we have all seen the shelves empty after there is a stop in transportation due to weather etc, doesn't take long for some food stuff to be sold out without a steady stream coming in, the same with fuel, if you are dependent on the transport system and others you are at their mercy.

While Mel and Bruce constantly pupu PMCon's comments about food production, at the core of it he is correct, if a nation cannot feed itself it is doomed.

One of our nations recent stupidity is creating ethyl alcohol as an additive for gasoline, nil productivity in it, what is put in with fossil fuel is not gained by its effort. A typical government subsidized commodity as like solar/wind.

But there was a reason that the government paid farmers not to grow crops and like anything the government does, who knows if it was effective. The reason in part was to conserve soils so that farming practices did not cause soil erosion, which all farming practices do to some extent. We have gotten better, but the rape and erosion of the Midwest soils and others was horrid.

Those were fertile soils that now are kept alive by fossil fuels, the same ca be said about what is left of Maine agricultural soils.

Toolsmith
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Certain concepts advanced in

Certain concepts advanced in recent years by MBA schools have removed a safety net in the name of efficiency. One of these concepts is just-in-time delivery. No storage or stockpiling, which is considered inefficient and costly due to storage costs. Everything is now stocked and shipped to arrive just barely before it is needed. Which works fine, until anything out of the ordinary occurs. Then, there is no stockpile to draw on, and instant shortages result. This is not an accident - they're doing it on purpose. From their perspective, profits are increased. From the customer's perspective, it means cheaper prices... until the shortage. Then it means profits are increased...
Obvious examples: fuel (oil, gas, propane, etc.), many foods, etc.

If you've ever wondered what's going on with all those stores being shuttered for "underperforming", you've stumbled on another of those ideas. Any store not performing above average is lowering the average - so it must be discarded to raise the average at once. Lots of lost jobs there. Again, not an accident - it's the plan. I've always considered this one stupid because it delivers your customers directly to your competition. Why would you want to do that? Why not FIX the store?
Examples: Tim Horton's, K-Mart, Sears

There are other concepts like this, of course, but I single out these two as being particularly offensive.

All of this makes us much less secure in an emergency.

What do you all think about it?

Bruce Libby
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The best example of this is

The best example of this is every trip to Hanafords or similar store
The bar coded product is the first evolution of inventory control .which has lead to all the things you mention.
The loss of their catalogue business was the first wound. What is Amazon? A giant online catalogue!
Sears has been killed by depending on credit sales and competition . Hope Depot and Owes have contributed
to their slow death march.

Thru all this they also lost the art of customer service. years ago during their first of ant difficulties I went to return a broken Craftsmen tool.
0930 am in store ,clerk who is busy says he will return,doesnot, second clerk ditto does not, I wasn't in terrible hurry but now and looking a
t 20 minutes plus in department. I did find he item I needed to exchange went desk and informed clerk first one hat I had just exchanged item on guarantee !
On way of story there was a drop o "suits" at front of store ,managers etc. types.I took he moment explain to them whether were in trouble.
Sears real estate is worth more than business.
As for stockpile etc. well a lot of that goes to self planning /preparedness of the individual for such things.

Matt
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Could someone translate what

Could someone translate what Webster just wrote?

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