Bruce why are you so touchy on this subject? Was a member of your family involved? You may personally know everything there is to know about the incident, but the general public knows almost nothing.
Don not touchy but as I said perplexed as to the manner it is approached.First I do not know anyone involved nor have anyother information than you do with the exception of some experience as I have noted with viewing employee discipline actions and the time it takes for a appeal etc. to be handled. If I am correct then the assumption that any report that exists is being stonewalled etc. is false.
Just what don't you know ?
This is what I know.
1. Fireboat crew was allowed to take non employee persons on a cruise on boat during what was classified as a training run.
2. There was no policy in place controlling this .
3. Boat ran aground hit a submerged object in channel between Little Diamond Island and Fort Georges. Where known hazards existed.
4. Boat sustained considerable damage. Requiring lengthy out of service for repairs of which all but $25000 dollars were covered by insurance.
5. Several staff were disciplined .( specifics were published)
6.Policy put in place
7. Chief retired.
What more is there that you want to now?
Bruce. See post 136.
OK if that is what your looking for I suspect it will be out at some point.
Don, your quest on this still strikes me as silly. The reason that whoever was steering the boat was distracted, or precisely what it hit, is irrelevant.
NO PRUDENT MARINER who had operational control of his or her vessel would be in that area. Particularly the helmsman of a vessel with nav equipment as sophisticated as that one. It's just that simple.
$300,000 now rather than the $1,800,000 then.
More training for Portland's fireboat pilots not needed. Report on Last October's accident still delayed.
"Rosen said the department's "checklist" is sufficient training for firefighters to pilot the 65-foot aluminum-hulled vessel."
On its face, the Portland assertion that the fireboat crew doesn't need Coast Guard training is nonsense. If they're so skilled now, why the two accidents in several years?
The Coast Guard doesn't train, Naran. They license provided that you can pass the license test. Licenses are required for commercial operation - passengers, such as passenger fishing vessels, tugs, etc. The PFD, not being a commercial operation, has no legal need for them - nor, would I argue, any practical need.
The courses for Coast Guard licenses are usually done on a for-profit basis, and the CG tests on things like understanding rules of the road, navigation, recognizing running lights, horn signals, etc. But they do NOT test your actual boat handling skill, nor do they test your judgment.
No prudent mariner with operational control of his vessel should have been in that area - licensed or not. If the fireboat was attempting a rescue and the crew made an informed decision to risk life and property in order to do so, that's one thing. Certainly not out on a joyride. Simple fact is that the senior officer on the fireboat that day fupped duck, and a license wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
Eagle, thank you for the clarifications. The statements in the article made it sound as if the city believes the Coast Guard provides training, not just licensing.
So, what's the solution when a city crew has such severe accidents with city property? if not a Coast Guard license, what should they do?
Beats me. But it would seem to require the same kind of logic with which one trains drivers of fire trucks - and I assume that's a fairly rigorous process involving familiarization with the equipment and lots of hours at the wheel.
To be certain, fire truck chauffeurs are already experienced vehicle operators by the time they're give a chance to drive a rig. If I was creating a training program, I'd say that I'd want a crewman on the boat for at least a year before even giving a chance to steer, under the close supervision of an experienced helmsman, followed by extensive training in navigation and vessel operations. And after several years as a helmsman, if that person shows both good boathandling, firefighting and personnel management skills, then perchance that individual could test to become a watch commander.
Maybe the PFD uses an approach like this. I don't know their training protocols and I'm not going to second guess them. But I do know boats and what's involved in operating them. And I know how to read a chart and a chart plotter, and I know a fair amount about Casco Bay - specifically, places where it's safe to operate and places to avoid. These guys were squarely in one of those latter places.
It's also important to realize that the person at the wheel is NOT necessarily the skipper, or officer in command of the vessel. The failure at Fort Gorges belongs to that individual, just as the failure in the Costa Concordia accident rests with its captain, who was not at the wheel.
Suspensions reduced for Portland firefighters involved in boat accident
Posted on January 8, 2013
.... Portland announced .... two firefighters involved in a controversial October 2011 accident while using the department fireboat will see their suspensions reduced. That is the result of legal arbitration to resolve a dispute between the city and Local 740 of the International Association of Firefighters....
Let accusations begin,open the pillory, !!!!
An arbitrator has ordered the city to pay more than $1,100 in back wages to two firefighters who were suspended without pay after damaging the city’s $3.2 million fireboat, the city said Tuesday in a press release.
The city said it will not release any additional information about the Oct. 15, 2011, incident...
That extra vacation will teach those incompetent twits not to play party boat again.
Gotta luv that Glasnost.
Updated: 6:47 AM
Portland councilor wants full report on fireboat accident released
By Randy Billings email@example.com
PORTLAND — ..Councilor Edward Suslovic ...calling on ...city to release ...detailed report about... 2011 fireboat accident....
...city ....said it would withhold details about... accident until the firefighters' appeal ....was concluded. But ...(now)... city said it would not release any additional information, citing employee confidentiality.
The city ...said it would eventually provide a detailed account ... Suslovic said....
"I've been told that for 15 months..." he said. "I want to see the full report."
.... City Hall spokeswoman Nicole Clegg said...city... never promised to make a full report ....
Suslovic is right. The city does need to release the full report, and all the details on the fireboat party. Now, the city is stonewalling, and denying they made the promise.
This is why municipalities are mandated to keep minutes of all meetings. Review the minutes, run the tapes, and document the dates/times when the city made the promises.
"...fireboat was traveling at 14 knots through an area of Casco Bay with known hazards when it hit an underwater object..."
"After passing Peaks Island at 5 knots, the 65-foot-long, 38-ton fireboat turned toward Fort Gorges and accelerated to 14 knots – roughly 16 mph – when it entered a shallow area between Fort Gorges and Little Diamond Island around 5:55 p.m."
Again, Don: No prudent mariner.
Files reveal cost discrepancy in Portland fireboat's 2009 crash
...in response to a Freedom of Access Act request...
The city said that repairs from the accident in November 2009 cost about $90,000, but invoices and a work order released by the city add up to about $170,000.
City officials have so far not explained the discrepancy.
The accident occurred while the fireboat's crew was responding to an emergency at Jewel Island.
For clarification purposes, it should be noted that the cost discrepancy applies to the FIRST accident with the fire boat, not the civilian-laden party-cruise incident.
In both accidents, the city paid a $25K deductible, but for some strange reason, the city claims they are "unable to say" whether the insurance premiums have risen as a result.
If I lived in Portland, I would be some disgusted by the apparent lousy management of the Public Purse.