Are Maine State Parks Free Kill Zones for Bad guys?
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It has been brought to my attention that it is not lawful to carry a firearm (even if licensed to do so) in Maine State Parks at certain times. This means that if a bad guy wants to go "People Hunting" in these areas, no legal, law abiding citizens will have the ability to defend themself or those around him.
"Gun Free Zones" and nothing more than "Free Killing Fields" for bad guys and there is no legit argument to allow them.
If it is illegal for any good guys to retain the ability of self defense, and obviously, the bad guys don't look for permission to do illegal acts there can only be one conclusion.
Many National Parks just fixed this problem. Its time to fix it here in Maine as well.
This is not a "hunting" situation or issue and should not be confused with the posession of a firearm for personal protection.
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Rules for State Parks and Historic Sites
The following rules and regulations are established by the Bureau pursuant to the provisions of the "Maine Revised Statutes Annotated," Title 12, Section 1803, subsection 6, and Section 1883.
1. The use of these areas shall be limited to the purposes for which they are being preserved and to activities determined by the Bureau to be compatible with the intended use of the facility. Activities which endanger persons or property are prohibited. The removal, molesting, injury or damage of anything natural, physical, prehistorical, or historical within these areas is strictly prohibited except as outlined in section 20 regarding hunting and trapping.
2. Feeding or touching wild animals found in the park is prohibited. For health and safety reasons, visitors are required to put away food securely and leave picnic areas and campsites clean.
3. Day-use areas will be open from 9:00 a.m. to sunset daily, unless posted otherwise due to operational constraints.
4. Use of metal detectors at historic sites is prohibited. Metal detectors are allowed in other areas only by written permit obtained at the park.
5. Intoxicating beverages are not permitted. Disorderly conduct is prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to, indecent acts, intoxication or coarse language.
6. Open fires are allowed only in grills or fireplaces provided by the Bureau. No fires are allowed on beaches. No fires shall be left unattended.
7. No pets are allowed on beaches or in the Sebago Lake State Park campground. Pets must be on a leash not exceeding four feet in length and must not be left unattended. Pet owners must immediately clean up any fecal deposits left by their pets. Pet owners may be assigned picnic or campsites in a less congested area of the park.
8. Wheeled vehicles including bicycles shall be parked only in places designated for that purpose, conform to posted traffic regulations, be confined to roads and trails specifically designated for their use and otherwise comply with all applicable State laws. Vehicles parked in unauthorized areas may be towed at the owners expense.
9. The discharging of wastes, including soaps and detergents, shall be prohibited except in a receptacle specifically designated for that purpose.
10. All rubbish shall be placed in containers provided by the Bureau. No rubbish shall be deposited in any type of toilet facility. At those areas where the Bureau has a carry in/carry out policy, users shall be responsible for carrying out all their refuse.
11. Soliciting is prohibited.
12. Campsite vacancies will be filled either by the State Park Campsite Reservation System or on a first come, first served basis. All campers must register in person when arriving at a State park campground.
13. The camping day is from 1:00 p.m. until 11:00 a.m. Camping shall be limited to a cumulative total of fourteen (14) nights from the last Saturday in June through the last Saturday in August.
14. Campsite occupancy will be limited to one camping party that shall be defined as: a) a family consisting of father, mother and any number of their unmarried children; b) a maximum of six (6) individuals, including children; c) one (1) R.V., trailer, camper van, or slide-in camper allowed per campsite; d) not more than two motor vehicles, including the visitor's vehicle.
15. Campsite visitors will be allowed as follows: a) After 9:00 a.m. by paying the day use fee and leaving before 8:00 p.m. Limit one visiting park campsite; the total number of people will not exceed ten, and the limit at Sebago Lake State Park be eight.
16. Quiet in camping areas is required between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m.
17. Trails will be opened and closed by the Bureau as warranted by environmental and safety conditions.
18. The use of chain saws and power equipment is prohibited. Generators may be used between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 7 p.m. as long as they do not bother other visitors.
19. The use of floating devices, face masks or snorkels is prohibited at surf beaches. Scuba diving may be allowed by permit obtained at the park.
•20. Hunting and trapping:
a. All hunting and trapping shall take place in accordance with the laws of the State of Maine, the laws and rules of the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, and local ordinances.
b. The possession and/or use of firearms or weapons is prohibited in all areas between May 1 and September 30, except where hunting is allowed during this period. Firearms or weapons may be transported across the Restricted Zone of the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, between May 1 and September 30, provided they are securely and completely enclosed in a cover, fastened in a case, or dismantled in at least two pieces in such a manner that they cannot be fired unless the separate pieces are joined together.
c. Hunting is not permitted at any time at State Historic Sites or Memorials, or at any of the properties listed below: Andrews Beach State Park; that portion of Bradbury Mountain State Park west of State Route 9; Cobscook Bay State Park: Crescent Beach and Kettle Cove State Parks; Damariscotta Lake State Park; Ferry Beach State Park; Holbrook Island Sanctuary State Park; Nickerson Lake State Park; Owls Head Light State Park; that portion of Quoddy Head State Park within 1,000 feet of the lighthouse; Reid State Park; Sebago Lake State Park; Shackford Head State Park; Two Lights State Park; and Wolfe's Neck Woods State Park.
d. Hunting is not permitted between May 1 and September 30 at any of the properties listed below: Restricted Zone of the Allagash Wilderness Waterway; Aroostook State Park; Birch Point Beach State Park; Bradbury Mountain State Park east of Route
•9; Camden Hills State Park; Grafton Notch State Park; Mt. Kineo State Park; Lake St. George State Park; Lamoine State Park; Lily Bay State Park; Moose Point State Park; Mount Blue State Park; Moxie Falls State Park; Peacock Beach State Park; Peaks-Kenny State Park; Popham Beach State Park; Quoddy Head State Park, except as provided in paragraph C. immediately above; Range Pond State Park; Rangeley Lake State Park, except that portion posted as part of the Rangeley Lake Game Sanctuary; Roque Bluffs State Park; Swan Lake State Park; Warren Island State Park.
e. The discharging of any weapon is prohibited from or within 300 feet of any picnic area, camping area or campsite, parking area, building, shelter, boat launch site, posted trail or other developed area.
f. Trails which are closed to hunting will be posted to that effect at access points. On trails posted as closed to hunting, loaded weapons are not permitted on the tread way and weapons may not be discharged within 300 feet of the trail.
g. Work areas and areas with significant public use may be temporarily posted as closed to hunting by park management in the interest of public safety.
h. Baiting of wildlife for the purpose of hunting is prohibited
i. Trapping may take place only in accordance with the laws of the State of Maine, the laws and rules of the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife and local ordinances. Trapping in state parks or historic sites in organized townships requires the written permission of the Bureau.
j. Bureau employees or their representatives in the official conduct of their duties and in accordance with bureau policy with prior approval from the bureau are exempt from the above rules.
In addition to any criminal and civil sanctions imposed by law, the Bureau may evict any person violating these rules or other State laws or regulations.
Penalties: Violation of any of these rules is a Class -E crime. October 1999
That's the point. Gun free zones don't EVER make sense.
I'll state it again:
"Gun Free Zones" and nothing more than "Free Killing Fields" for bad guys and there is no legit argument to allow them.
If it is illegal for any good guys to retain the ability of self defense, and obviously, the bad guys don't look for permission to do illegal acts there can only be one conclusion. If a bad guy decides to take a gun into one of these zones, be it a school, a bar, a trail in the forest, the only thing you know for sure is that everyone is outgunned and at his mercy.
I think I have been tasked with a little more responsibility to my friends, fmily and myself than to be at the mercy of a whackjob, placing our (and my) like in his hands, cowering like a sheep. Bigshooter don't play that.
We need to get this State Parks language corrected. It's already been corrected on a Federal level.
Here's another one for you, Big.
*************
Police say no sign of threat after 2 arrested with guns at shipyard
By Elizabeth Dinan
edinan@seacoastonline.com
January 08, 2010 2:26 PM
KITTERY, Maine — A pair of Pennsylvania truckers hauling welding supplies to the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard was charged with carrying concealed weapons with licenses issued in their home state, but not valid in Maine.
... stopped at a shipyard gate Thursday morning...a . search.. discovered the driver and passenger were carrying handguns.
...snip
Both told police they thought their out-of-state gun licenses were valid in Maine ...they had traveled to Canada and back without incident.
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This makes no sense to me. Why isn't a CCW valid wherever? What were they supposed to do, leave their guns at home?
So, two law-abiding American citizens are now held up in Maine, facing criminal charges - for what????
A driver's license issued in one state is valid in another, if the driver is merely passing through, as these two men were doing. Why not a CCW?
Looks like all that needs to be done is eliminate 20-b. Where do we start??
Dear Rep. Connor, Senator Sullivan
Could you please assist me in repealing 20b of the following rules for State Parks and Historic sites. Not allowing law abiding citizens, particularly those who have Maine concealed carry permits, to carry in Maine State Parks is an open invitation to mass shootings of innocent Mainers and visitors alike. Laws prohibiting possession of firearms have never worked. Think about it. If you were intent on killing someone ,for whatever reason, wouldn’t you want to be assured that the victims(s) could not shoot back??
Please take the necessary steps to repeal this harmful and potentially dangerous rule.
Sincerely,
Rules for State Parks and Historic Sites
The following rules and regulations are established by the Bureau pursuant to the provisions of the "Maine Revised Statutes Annotated," Title 12, Section 1803, subsection 6, and Section 1883.
•20. Hunting and trapping:
a.
b. The possession and/or use of firearms or weapons is prohibited in all areas between May 1 and September 30, except where hunting is allowed during this period. Firearms or weapons may be transported across the Restricted Zone of the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, between May 1 and September 30, provided they are securely and completely enclosed in a cover, fastened in a case, or dismantled in at least two pieces in such a manner that they cannot be fired unless the separate pieces are joined together.
Sent in my two cents worth
JoeRN - term limits are your best hope, and that from a non-supporter of term limts.
"This makes no sense to me. Why isn't a CCW valid wherever? "
Because of differences in the extent of background checks, and the fact that the state laws differ.
In which case it would seem the laws/rules need to be consistent, nation-wide .... just like those for a driver's license.
I feel for the truck drivers, who did nothing wrong except not know the specific laws for each and every state they passed through.
I can see it now - new revenue stream for the MTA -
Sign at the York Tollbooth:
"Your CCW Isn't Legal in Maine! Conveniently Check All Firearms With Us, for a Handy Fee of $500, and Retrieve Them On Your Way Out of State!"
(unless, of course, you actually want them with you during your travels in Maine, for protection... ).
term limits are your best hope, and that from a non-supporter of term limts.
I disagree! What happens when people like Doug Thomas are termed out. Term limits change nothing!
Its crazy. I have CCW permits in 5 States. Much of the criteria is almost identical. Some States (most) are much more difficult than Maine. The fact that we don't accept non-res permits from almost every other state is foolish. I have watched lots of legal roadblocking go on in this area and it's disgusting. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to have people who are law-abiding citizens of their own State, licensed to carry, being in trouble in Maine. There are several other states just waiting for Maine to accept their permit to issue instant reciprocity. As long as we let people who don't think anyone should have a CCW run the show, the same results will continue. Florida should be a good example of a State looking to help citizens of states who help their citizens in return.
I'm just hoping the truck drivers don't end up losing their jobs over this bureaucratic nonsense. We know they're losing work time, money and paying legal bills, regardless.
Robert - I agree with you about term limits, I was just commenting on the two he wrote to.
What happens to your right to keep and bear arms if you're convicted of a firearms-related crime?
I think it's illegal for convicted felons and people with any conviction for domestic violence to possess firearms.
charlie
Good question, Mike. This arrest in Maine will cause subsequent troubles for these guys. Another "unfriendly Maine" instance that won't endear this state to any truckers.
Hey, folks, don't forget to send in your NRA-ILA TAG poll when you get it in the mail.
I cut and pasted Joe Rednecks letter on an e mail and sent it to my rep. I will post her response. I did make one change, I replaced sincerely, with, anticipating your response.
As I understand it the legislature told the DPS to make our CCW compatible with other states to allow reciprocity several years ago and they have just sat on it and done little to implement such. It has something to do with our criminal data base not being up to federal standards and they claim they do not have the money to do same. It is the same old story of government failing to be responsible and overtaxing us for other unnecessary things. Sheesh!
Charlie, in Maine you don't have to be convicted of Domestic abuse. You are guilty until you prove your innocence. Your wife says you beat her. The cops take your guns until you prove your innocence. Or you have to at least get them out of the house.
Naran, CCW laws are another method of collecting monies from free Americans. If your drivers license and your marriage license are valid in all 50 states, so should your CCW be. A nationwide reciprocity bill ALMOST passed last summer/fall. Let's hope it gets brought up again after the 2010 elections when Repubs will rule.
You are correct, Joe Redneck. Once convicted though, you can never again legally possess a gun.
charlie
Has anyone seen anything new on the proposal by Sen. Damon to short circuit the National Park Service rule that makes lands under their control subject to the host state's concealed carry laws?
Reference this thread on the AMG Liberty Watch subforum
I've tried the bill status search on the legislature webpage for all bills sponsored by Sen Damon for the Second Regular Session of the 124th. I've tried using the terms "acadia" and firearms" in the text search as well. I don't see anything there.
I have a CCW here in Maine and most likely will never need to use my firearm in my own defense, but if I need it I’ve got it. When I travel to places like Baltimore or NYC, I would truly like to have my CCW more so than in Maine. However, this should be a State’s rights issue and not a Federal issue because the last thing any gun owner wants is a Federal gun registration via CCW’s. Getting the States to conference on this issue would be like rounding up cats and most of the States that have the unfriendly firearms regulations are the ones with the most violence.
The restrictions on travel have made it practically impossible to bring a gun with you unless you drive. Air travel requires the guns to be checked baggage unless in an official capacity. The paper work alone makes enough of a deterrent for the average traveler to leave the gun at home. It’s become such a snafu of regulatory webs for gun owners, it’s to the point that it’s just easier to give up researching all the rules and keep the guns at home: completing the purpose of such regulations. Who would have ever though the 2nd Amendment would be hamstrung is such fashion.
I fly with guns ALOT. Its really no big deal. Seriously. All you do is present the gun, unloaded in a lockable container and sign a tag stating it is unloaded. You lock it in the company of a viewing TSA agent and it goes on its way. I always have mine in a locked case INSIDE my regular luggage so nothing screams "gun in here" when on the plane or at the baggage claim.
Trust me, its simple stuff.
Unless you're driving a truck, I guess.
The 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA), flawed as it was in many areas, allows people to posess firearms in any state while traveling as long as their gun is legal in their home state and their destination state. This is so socialists like Bloomberg can't pinch law abiding gun owners at his border. We are still free to move about the country without having to learn and follow stupid, feel-good, nonsense gun posession laws imposed by the leaders of the most dangerous places to be in the first place.
That being said, the guns usually need to be inaccessable during your travels. In a small locked case is usually fine.
If we just had a true CCW reciprocity in this country these crazy laws wouldn't keep pinching "good guys" and would focus on real "bad guys" instead.
It is time we DEMAND some common sense from the people we designate as public servants instead of their iron fist rulings because they know what's best for us.
How dose the1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA) impact the rule on Massachusetts gun owners not being able to purchase a firearm in Maine and transport it back to MA without going through an FFL in their local town?
Every time I go to Kittery Trading Post I hear some guy from MA getting the 3rd degree on how he can’t transport a gun, he just purchased, back to MA without shipping it to an FFL middle man.
there's a difference between PURCHASE of a firearm, and transport of an already owned firearm. The NFA (National firearms Act) regulates sale of firearms in interstate commerce. Generally, sales to nonresidents are more highly regulated.
Actually NFA (The National Firearms Act) covers non-sporting (Title II) firearms like Machine guns, Silencers, Destructive Devices, etc.
Here is a link to the NFA page at the BATF website: NFA Firearms
Were getting off the subject a little though. The focus here is that we need to get rid of the foolishness that disarms law abiding people in State parks. When only the bad guys have firearms the results are obvious. You can't name many places where armed bad guys killed innocent people in places where the intended victim had the ability to fight back. When they run around "Gun Free Zones" however it is usually free people hunting, with high body counts until the have had enough and kill themself too or eventually bump into a good guy with a gun to end the carnage.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/
You are correct - the GCA is a different chapter from the NFA in Title 18 USC.
The GCA of 1968 did the most in terms of regulating the business of firearm sale, the NFA also imposed a tax on dealing in firearms - specifically NFA firearms. While the GCA amended the NFA, it did not subsume it. The GCA was much more than an amendment.
Bigshooter, try to follow the logic of people much smarter than you or I. Yes, it's true that people who have concealed carry permits have undergone extra scrutiny to ensure that they're responsible people who can be trusted with guns and yes, it's true that the crime rate from people with concealed carry permits is statistically zero. But when these people enter places like parks, post office parking lots and schoolgrounds they become deranged, psychopathic killers. No one knows why, but Chuck Schumer, Dianne Feinstein and Barak Obama swear it's true.
These days, I'm not sure our president claims that is true. Congress passed, on his watch, a liberalizing amendment permitting concealed carry in national parks. During MOST of the Bush 43 administraiton, such carry was not permitted. He made no attempt to veto the legislation, which is now law.
I listened to an interesting interview with Bill Clinton on the subject of presidential poll numbers, in which he bitterly complained Congress and Obama "haven't taken on the gun lobby like I did ".
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/bill-clinton-says-right-wing-co...
Being for Clinton - type "bun control (victim disarmament) is like being for slavery. I believe that our CEO may just get that. The bigger question is the political debt he owes to his lackeys and rumpswabs on the even farther and less rational left.
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It is my understanding that CW permits do not trump rules that prohibit possession of weapons - like a federal building, airport etc...