Astounding greed

In case anyone wonders why we need a tax cap right now, this from todays Portland Socialist:

quote:MAINE VOICES: Teri E. McRae
What is fair for Portland's teachers? Copyright © 2004 Blethen Maine Newspapers Inc.
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As the teachers have brought their contract issues to the public, many of my constituents have asked me to please settle the Portland School teachers' contract and pay our teachers fairly.First, let me explain that I don't negotiate the contract and it isn't in my power to settle it. The School Committee does have to give approval to any agreement, however.As we are asked to review various proposals, we try to balance our desire to compensate our teachers fairly with our fiscal responsibility for an $83 million budget (almost $60 million from taxpayers). We are responsible for many other employees and are part of a city budget that pays many other people - all with taxpayer money.What follows lists the main details of the 2003-'04 current contract, on which members of the public are entitled to offer their comments. While negotiations are private, the current contract is a public document.I recognize that there is more than money in a contract. The current one covers work conditions and many other things that are not direct monetary compensation.FOCUS ON COMPENSATIONI have heard no concerns about the non-monetary issues, so I will focus on the major financial elements.
The starting salary with a bachelor's degree is $30,202; the top pay level is $51,488 with a bachelor's degree - $55,658 with a master's degree.
Differentials - amounts paid to teachers that lead any co-curricular programs - offer additional pay ranging from $800 to $6,300 with the majority between $2,000 and $4,000.
The last contract covered three years, with last year's salary and differential raises both pegged at 3.6 percent.
For the first 20 years, teachers get, in addition to any raise, an increase in pay for their additional year of service. These step increases range from $1,000 to $1,400. For example, a teacher with five years experience was paid $35,667 last year. There is one last step after 25 years.
The contract is for 183 days work or approximately 37 work weeks. The remaining 15 weeks are school holidays and vacations.
Teachers get 15 sick days each year. These days can be accumulated up to 183 days. If a teacher retires with 20 or more years, they receive pay for a quarter of their accumulated sick days up to 45 days.
The school district pays 100 percent of the Anthem Choice Plus rate for teachers and their children. Any spousal coverage is at the teachers' expense.We spend an average of $5,000 per teacher per year on this coverage. We are locked in to Anthem through the Maine Educators Association and cannot get competitive proposals.
Extended leave is unpaid, but teachers can return to their positions or comparable ones. Sabbatical leaves are available after seven years for school-related activity. A full year sabbatical leave is at 50 percent of pay, Half a year is paid at 75 percent pay, with benefits continuing.Please remember that these are financial highlights of the contract that I have picked out - they are not the contract in full. Full copies are available at the central office.I have read that the teachers are looking for a 3 percent to 5 percent raise for each of the next three years. I believe other city raises this year have been, at most, 2 percent. I am not aware of the School Department agreeing to a multiyear salary agreement with any of our other employees.A FAIR CONTRACTI value education and the work that our teachers do. I support their efforts with my time and personal funds. I, too, want them to have a fair contract.I also value the other school department employees and city employees - all of whom are paid out of taxpayer funds.As we strive to agree on what is fair for everyone involved, I welcome people's opinions on this matter. While they are in no way part of negotiations with the teachers, they will help me properly represent my constituents.- Special to the Press Herald

:eek:

The Health insurance is the craziest thing, as is Portland's Self Insurance.I as a person working in Industry pay for my plan, and more specifically 100% of anyone I put on my plan. My goodness, imagine the Bloody murderous cries if we demanded that people in the School Fund Payroll (All people under the education Chunk of money that is allocated) have to pay for their bennifits.I wonder out loud how much money that would save?Locked into BCBS, that is so silly, almost as silly as publically funded elections.Ed

quote: the top pay level is $51,488 with a bachelor's degree - $55,658 with a master's degree

The average home in portland costs $1,300 per month for mortgage, taxes, insurance, or $15,000.A teacher earning $35,000 per year is left then with after tax income, after mortgage, a whopping $15,000 to live on.Man. They want more?That's greedy.Now, lets say this teacher also has a 401k. When public corporations in his portfolio pay their CEOs $15 million per year, and someone complains that THAT is a little greedy...well..They're just playing class warfare.Chris.

Another over the top, contrived argument from the Liberal one.

Portland School teachers are not self insured as noted in the editorial. I don't know if the non-union employees are part of the city’s self-insurance program.Give them hell Teri!!!Teri is also the Republican candidate of Register of Probate. Although the current Register of Probate has wasted $100,000 of the county's money because he did not like that his deputy had opposed him for his job, the PPPH endorsed him as being fiscally responsible.Steven Scharf
SCSMedia@aol.com

Here is my financial info from the working at the D.P.S. (dreaded private sector):After 17 years of service to the same small company, I made $45,000, gross. Two weeks vacation. One week of sick days. Standard holidays. I was expected to work 50 hours per week. For 16 years I had no health insurance benefit. In the last year I was given a major medical policy that covered me in case of a catastrophic illness, and nothing else. No pension plan of any kind.Bachelor's degree plus specialized training required.And here is the kicker: I was held accountable for my actions. I could be sued at any time, whether I was at fault or not. I had to actually do a good job and be helpful and pleasant to people in order for them to use my services again or recommend me to others. Employment was never guaranteed. If the phone did not ring, and work dried up, I was laid off, which happened in two of the 16 winters.And in Maine that is a terrific job. (I am now 10 weeks self-employed)Are teachers insanely overcompensated? Well, not compared to other gov't employees.

Chris, Most Portland teachers earn more than the base amount. Most of them make much more. Most of them are also partnered with someone who shares in those hosuing expenses. Most of them don't live in Portland. Most of them work other jobs during the 2 months they are not in school providing them additional income.Steven Scharf
SCSMedia@aol.com

It's like arguing that you ought to be able to have a wife and two kids and a house on minimum wage. That's pure unadulterated crap.The idea is that if you want more, earn more in another profession; get out of the one you're in.I couldn't afford a house right away after college, let alone an "average house." Libby is as unrealistic as the typical liberal.On the bright side, I thought Brunswick's paying of 90% plus on health care was profligate; this tops that.In B'wick, salaries and benefits are 76% of the budget. Watch the trap on the contracts. The yearly step increases just for being there are the key, and in Brunswick, you jump to a higher pay column. for each 15 units of classwork.They'll try to tell you there's just a "2% increase each year." But that's a total elevation of every number in the pay chart by that amount. So the general increase rides on top of the row and column increases as well.Result? I looked at a variety of career path progressions from junior to senior. (In our town, you must complete your taxpayer funded masters in 8 years.) The net result was average annual increases in the 5% plus range. Not bad with no performance ratings or other incentives to excel.

PS: Hey Libby, how many other Maine residents could afford "average houses" if they were only to work 37 weeks a year?You can escalate those salary figures by 35% to give pay on an equivalent basis to those who work full time.And how many of the rest of the work force requires a substitute to be hired to take their place when they have a sick day?Here I think they get 17 sick days, which works out to pretty close to one every other week. Generous to say the least. Check how many the "average worker" gets in a 52 week year. Theirs work out to 23 days for a full year equivalent.Too bad the education lobby has allowed the atmosphere to be so poisoned that even discussing the subject brands you a hateful extremist.One thing for sure; the vast majority of budget increases are not "for the children", unless you are talking about the teachers' children.

quote:The average home in portland costs $1,300 per month for mortgage, taxes, insurance, or $15,000.A teacher earning $35,000 per year is left then with after tax income, after mortgage, a whopping $15,000 to live on.

quote: The contract is for 183 days work or approximately 37 work weeks. The remaining 15 weeks are school holidays and vacations.

That's an entry level position. You don't even Know if they are any good at what they do. That's right out of college, and my guess is once they are in you would have to shake the earth to fire them if they were not good at the job.
I value education as well. But sometimes when a things don't go well it is the responsibility of the employee to make concessions to help the organization survive, and opperate better and smoother in the future. 2 years ago my school district had dug itself into a $2,000,000 hole(large hole for this district. During the next months after the public was made aware(the superintendant kept it a secret, and was asked to resign), the teachers were negotiating their contract.
At the same time the district is trying desperately to make cuts,the teachers were crying and crying about how every cut was going to harm education. The board, almost without blinking gave the teachers a 15% raise over three years, plus increases in most benefits.
It didn't appear to me like they were to worried about the quality of education at that point,or laying of some of their compadre,s. Do you think they could have gotten by on say 3% for a couple of years, for the sake of the kids they so adamantly defend. The whole while screaming for new and better schools.
Not just greed but a fair share of hypocrisy. thrown in.
I don't know about a tax cap but at that moment we could have used a few more people the meetings, the turn out was a joke.
But I will say there are a lot of new faces on the board now, and the budget is slowly getting back in order. Although we still find ourselves borrowing money for the summer lump sum payments to the teachers every freaking year. So that we have to pay interest on payroll every summer.[ 10-11-2004: Message edited by: Keenan ]

Hell, and I thought OUR local school district was out of control! This is unreal to hear about. Makes one wonder what a forensic audit would show.Took us three years in Kennebunk to get the old administration replaced with people who at least so far seem to have some clue about running a $26M business. Which is what it is, despite their sacred mantra of "It's For the Children."The private sector has no protection from economic reality; it's about time the educational sector had a dose of living without automatic pay increases, pensions, and health insurance. Around here they pay 15% of theirs, we finally hammered them into going to 16% next year. Horrors!

quote:Originally posted by Lewiston Liberal:
The average home in portland costs $1,300 per month for mortgage, taxes, insurance, or $15,000.A teacher earning $35,000 per year is left then with after tax income, after mortgage, a whopping $15,000 to live on.Man. They want more?That's greedy.Now, lets say this teacher also has a 401k. When public corporations in his portfolio pay their CEOs $15 million per year, and someone complains that THAT is a little greedy...well..They're just playing class warfare.Chris.

That teacher making $35K a year is making just about the median household income in Portland,all by himself. The teacher making $35K is also a newbie teacher. That is close to the starting salary. In Portland we have people making 1/3 more than the median income demanding more largess from those far poorer.Too much for too little. Look at those "sabatical" rules, we PAY for a teachers 6 month vacation!15 sick days a year!!!

Here's my real beef with this:When we pay CEOs $15 million it is completely justifiable because we need to attract the best minds..But that argument never floats for the people who will educate the next generation of Americans.To me, the teacher is far more valuable than the CEO.I'd pay more to attract more people. Then, and only then, you might get right wingers applying for the jobs. Chris.p.s. the last part was humor for those lacking therein.

quote:Originally posted by George:
As it works now, if a teacher survives the first two years, they keep their job unless they commit a crime and get automatic raises every year just for breathing and doing the minimum required of the job.

It's more like 15 months.
You have to make the decision to take on
a new teacher in Spring of their second year,
with about 60 weeks' on the job experience.

quote:Originally posted by George:
I would buy the market argument if teachers were payed based one merit. As it works now, if a teacher survives the first two years, they keep their job unless they commit a crime and get automatic raises every year just for breathing and doing the minimum required of the job.

Agreed on the automatic raises George, but on what basis should they be awarded? What is the measure of merit for a teacher?

Everyone...remember 37 weeks when comparing. On that basis, they are probably doing quite well.Also, CEO's making $15 million don't get it by confiscating the money with the force of law.And they usually work in a competitive market.How many average American's have made great sums because of Bill Gates' success? His market wealth reflects the wealth of other folks who have bought Microsoft.

I was thinking that standardized test scores would reflect the influence on a student of several teachers in a specific subject and many overall. Therefore, the irony would be that student performance could not be used as an accurate measure for evaluating specific teachers.

quote:
I have read that the teachers are looking for a 3 percent to 5 percent raise for each of the next three years.

IF just ONE school board member in the entire state
took the time to understand how the teachers' union
is making fools of them...The 3 to 5 percent raise mentioned above
is an increase in the wage schedule.
The wage schedule gives every teacher a raise
every September just for showing up.
Put both of these raises together,
and you will find that the union is really
demanding raises in the 10 to 17 percent area,
depending on a teacher's length of service.

Any other high schools offering breakfast out there? They do in my district and in defense of it I actually heard someone say that they were trying to help raise our children. I don't want them to help raise my child we pay them to teach them. I was dumb founded to find out that people would rather use their tax dollars to fed their children than get of their ass's and make them breakfast.
Oh yeah then there was the big push to offer day care at the high school. Oh no not for the teachers but for the sixteen year old's. And I'm supposed to believe that the teachers wouldn't use it.It was shot down narrowly and I guarantee it will be revisited again.

It makes money?
In order to serve breakfast don't they actually need more workers in food service. As in they have to be in earlier to cook it and to serve it.
You run the equipment longer etc. You have to man the kitchen and the cash registers, and some one in the cafeteria to keep an eye on the kids.
Don't forget just because it's federal dollars doesn't mean it's not your money. Our district needs a new middle school and in order to get state funding they have to build a regional school. So instead of building a school for 80 kids we have to build a school to house 350, and close the existing other middle school that is only 15 years old. In a district with declining student populations. The argument is always we have to do it or we don't get the state money. It is not state money it is still our money no matter where it comes from. When I say our money I mean citizens of Maine.

quote:Originally posted by Keenan:
Any other high schools offering breakfast out there?

All schools may offer free or reduced cost
lunch AND breakfast if they meet
US Dept of Agriculture guidelines.

Where would we be without our federal benefactors?

quote:Originally posted by George:

The federal funds come to provide free and reduced priced lunchs to the poor.

Yeah, if you define a family of four
with an income of $35,000
as "the poor."

In general, and in average, I don't think teachers are underpaid or overpaid. The problem is that the salary scheme does nothing to attract and keep good teachers, or to encourage those that aren't so good to find something else to do.I agree that some kind of merit pay system would go along way to solving the problem. But ask any teacher you know what they think about it and you will likely get a horrified reaction. You see many of them think (and some justifiablly so) that the people that would have to evaluate them are completely incapable of doing so.Part of the reason that there is so much resistance is the completely over the top arguments like those presented here of 15% annual raises, thousands in free perks and $50/hr rates. If you want to make an argument, at least make it on facts and not on emotion.BTW Frank, what profession in Maine is it that you have to pay to park?

quote:Originally posted by Randy:
.Part of the reason that there is so much resistance is the completely over the top arguments like those presented here of 15% annual raises, thousands in free perks and $50/hr rates. If you want to make an argument, at least make it on facts and not on emotion.

The 15% was over 3 years 5% annually and that's fact. While in the middle of the biggest budget shortfall in the districts history., caused by a superintendant that kept the shortfall a secret from the public by over six months,and the teachers overwhelmingly supported the guy even after he did it.
There are thousands in perks. Do you get to go on sabatical to Europe with your company. I don't begrudge anybody what they earn as long as they earn it.
I don't have any problem with school lunch programs.

quote:Put both of these raises together,
and you will find that the union is really
demanding raises in the 10 to 17 percent area,
depending on a teacher's length of service.

This is the statement I was refering to.

A big problem is most of these people have never had to work in the private sector. You know places where if you work hard and try to save the company money you can actually move up and make more money on your merits. In effect they are professional students, they never left school.

You are correct.This is a problem with all salary systems that have longevity as a component. It is based on the notion that as a person gains experience, they are more valuable to the organization.This is not uncommon in industry. I can remember having salary bands that related salary to years of experience in technical/professional categories.The difference of course is that attainment of any particular point on that band was not garaunteed, as it is in professions that have negotiated contracts. It becomes a problem to the budget when there is little turnover in an organization. Every orgnization needs some turnover to remain healthy. When you have low turnover, you end up with a lot of "veteran" teachers, all near the top of the scale.There needs to be some recognition of experience as a factor in someones pay, just as there needs to be some recognition of performance.If you really want to see the quality of teachers decline, tell them that they will be stuck with entry level pay for the length of thier career.Sounds to me like the teachers in Portland have a pretty sweet deal compared to what they have around here.

Say you teach American history. You've been teaching American History for ten years. You have used the same tests for ten years. You've said the same thing for ten years. There is no incentive to work at all at this point if you are not motivated. The script for class is written. "OK class today we study the constitution, open your books to chapter 3, read it and there will be a ten year old quiz for you tomorrow. I'll be right back I have to run down to the teachers lounge for a few minutes. "I am not saying this is the norm but it certainly isn't uncommon either.

quote:Originally posted by George:
Comparing the teacher's pay to the median pay is silly because that includes people without a college degree. A better comparison would be to other people in the community with similar education.I would like to see teacher pay increases tied to lengthening the school year and to merit pay.

I would prefer to pay a teacher based on demonstrable merit instead of simply paper qualifications. In todays America, a chimp can get a degree. Show me some competence in teaching and I'd go with additional pay.

quote:Agreed but my point above was that overall people with college degrees make more money than people without college degrees. That is a fact. If you are going to compare teacher pay to a larger sample, you need to compare the pay to those that have a college degree or you are comparing apples and oranges. What a high school dropout makes is not relevant to what we pay teachers.

I see no reason to pay people with paper credentials more than those without. How many waiters have a degree? What about auto mechanics? When we hire them does the boss say "Oh, I was going to pay you $10 an hour but wow! I see a BA on your CV. That's worth another $5 at the least!"No, every profession pays for results BUT government and education. There the pay is based on longevity and what a union can scam. George, I simply have met too many bright people without degrees and far too many idiots with them to take the paper credential all that seriously.Show me a track record of success and THAT, I'd reward.[ 10-11-2004: Message edited by: James ]