Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

109 posts / 0 new
Last post
Anonymous
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke
Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

He'll just try to get it from somewhere else.

Anyway, what is the rationale for taxing smokers so heavily? It is a legal activity, why single out smokers?

...---...
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 12/18/2006 - 9:12am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

"Anyway, what is the rationale for taxing smokers so heavily?
It is a legal activity, why single out smokers?"

LOWEST HANGING FRUIT FIRST.

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Why not add an extra $1 to a bottle of booze or six pack of beer?

Maybe another buck for a Big Mac?

What's this facination with smokers?

...---...
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 12/18/2006 - 9:12am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Give them time, they'll get to it.
as long as there are "structural gaps" they'll look for quick fixes.

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

A much higher percentage of the population eats fatty foods and drinks than the percentage of the population that smokes.

You can also eat fatty food or drink in moderation with little or no negative impact on your health.

...---...
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 12/18/2006 - 9:12am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

A couple of cigars a week can't hurt can it?

Anonymous
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Wasn't this a budget Line Item as Revenue & DirWeGo [size=9]savings[/size]?

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Dan, so what if they smoke and get sick and die? What reason is that to tax them more?

Folks who die from smoking tend to do so in their 50's 60's and 70's. They have been productive, paid into the tax system and social security. When they die early, the government saves a TON in social security, nursing home costs and medicaid and other medical costs that old people incur. Sure, if they smoke they die, but EVERYBODY dies.

It's the ones that live forever that cost the most.

Heck, I think if the state was REALLY smart - they'd SUBSIDIZE smoking. Hand out free packs of cigarettes at the nursing home. Let Granny puff herself happily to an early grave and free up the room.

Government idiots have it SO backwards.

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

People don't just die. They die after thousands in health care costs. And we pay those costs for 25% of our population.

I'm not in favor of increasing the tax, by the way. But it is close to the last tax that I would decrease.

Ray Richardson
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 10 months ago
Joined: 05/07/2002 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

This was DOA from the moment it was proposed. It is not good politics so soon after raising it one dollar and five cents two years ago. Look for a lower amount to probably gain headway.

Mike Travers
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 08/04/2002 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

[quote="Tom C"]Why not add an extra $1 to a bottle of booze or six pack of beer?

Maybe another buck for a Big Mac?

What's this facination with smokers?[/quote]

Why not spend a little less and reduce taxes on Big Macs, booze, and cigarettes, and everything else? Why is it that every time someone thinks they're unfairly taxed, they suggest taxing someone else instead of lowering everyone's taxes?

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Dan, lots of people die after incurring thousands in health care costs. Non-smokers.

Look, I hate to be cold about it, but tell me - spend $100,000, even $200,000 on cancer treatments for a smoker who dies at age 65, or pay another $35,000 a year for nursing home care for 20 years for someone who lives to be 85 - on which of those is the state making out better?

Smoking actually SAVES the state money!

You want to know what costs the state a lot of money? AIDS. And you don't get AIDS from smoking - well, unless you smoke after sex - gay sex that is. God bless our gay friends, I love all of them, but the government pays almost all the AIDS treatment expense, and most AIDS costs come from the 3% of the population - the gay population. I hate to say it, but there you go.

And the cost is plenty - most AIDS victims don't have insurance, the disease is debilitating enough that they can't work, and even if they can, they can't afford to give up Medicaid coverage to pay the $60,000 - $250,000 a year treatment. So you also lose decades of productivity and taxes that would be generated by a healthy worker. I have the geatest degree of symapthy for AIDS sufferers and admire the courage of those facing the disease bravely, but don't also turn around and tell me the high costs are the fault of cigarette smokers. Get real.

Dora Mills will blah, blah, blah about cost of smoking, cost of overeating, cost of trans-fats, whatever, you name it, they're just made up numbers anyway. They have no way of really knowing what those cost...

But the cost of AIDS treatment in MAINE? They know EXACTLY how much that costs in direct costs because they pay the Medicaid claims. But they would NEVER publicize that. Gay lobby and agenda all. And they can also calculate the huge indirect costs of AIDS. But - silence there, too. But you and I can see it.

Don't jump on a guy and tax him to death if he sticks a cigarette in his mouth. There is dangerous activity going on every day that is costing the state many times what smoking costs. This whole smoking thing is just a diversion from the real costs of health care in Maine. It's just blame shifting.

Anyway, not very nice, I am sure, but there it is. Cold hard accounting facts. Naran's at dinner, I think, so if you want we could probably talk about this for a bit before the wooden spoon comes down and kaboshes this topic, but there you go.

Truth hurts, sometimes.

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

[quote="Mike Travers"][quote="Tom C"]Why not add an extra $1 to a bottle of booze or six pack of beer?

Maybe another buck for a Big Mac?

What's this facination with smokers?[/quote]

Why not spend a little less and reduce taxes on Big Macs, booze, and cigarettes, and everything else? Why is it that every time someone thinks they're unfairly taxed, they suggest taxing someone else instead of lowering everyone's taxes?[/quote]

Mike, I was using it as an example. I don't smoke and I do eat big macs, so there was no way I was talking about rasing someone else's taxes.

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Tom: There are no numbers to support your claims. You can provide nothing to back uo your "truth."

Very few people get AIDs.

Many people get smoking related illnesses.

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Oh, so AIDS is not a health problem you say?

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

It is for those that get it. But it is not one of the big cost drivers in our system because it is relatively rare in this country.

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

OK, Dan, how many AIDS cases in Maine?

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

There were 1056 total cumulative cases of AIDs in Maine in 2004.

That many people are diagnosed with new cases of lung cancer in Maine every year. Not all of those are smoking related, but smoking plays a role in many other diseases.

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Come and play, Dan - let's pick a number - 500? That OK with you? Nice low number?

Michael Vaughan
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/22/1999 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

[quote="Tom C"]...Government idiots have it SO backwards.[/quote]Working with the adage that you tax the things you want to discourage, and not tax the things you want to encourage...

How about having the highest tax on the the poor and progressively lowering the tax on working people as their income goes up.

The highest acheivers would pay nothing.

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Rush proposed that more than a decade ago.

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

[quote="Michael Vaughan"]
How about having the highest tax on the the poor and progressively lowering the tax on working people as their income goes up.

[/quote]

They have that already - it's called the Maine State Lottery.

Michael Vaughan
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/22/1999 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

[quote="Dan Billings"]Rush proposed that more than a decade ago.[/quote]I know.

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

[quote="Dan Billings"]There were 1056 total cumulative cases of AIDs in Maine in 2004.
[/quote]

OK, someone posted here about the annual cost of AIDS treatment, down quite a bit and now about $65,000 a year, so that's $65,000,000. Lost wages, figure an average of $25,000 per person, that's 25 million. Probably a half are on social security disability, plus section 8, welfare, foodstamps, etc, $25,000 in direct benefits plus about $5k in admin that's another $15 million, so now we're around $100 million.

And that is the baseline - that will be there every year and increase every year, (unlike smoking deseases which cure or kill the victim in a year or two.) And that is for 1000 people out of a population 1.1 million - less than 0.1% of the population.

I think it's great the progress we are making treating disease and I hope that all folks suffering from AIDS can be cured some day, but if we want to pick on dangerous behavior that costs society money, let be fair about it.

I wonder why it is OK to talk openly about the costs of smoking, but you will be censored if you mention the cost of AIDS?

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

The cost per year of lung cancer treatment is $42,000 per year. And we have 1000 new cases every year.

And that is just one of the smoking related illnesses.

AIDs is a drop in the bucket when compared to smoking.

Tom C
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2006 - 6:00pm
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

OK, but what is the mortality of a lung cancer sufferer? 2 years? That is a total medical cost of $84,000, plus maybe another $50 grand in other costs - and the prognosis isn't good.

Compair that to a "healthy" person who might live another 20 years in a nursing home and cost the state $35,000 a year for 20 years - that's a whopping $700,000.

Now compaire those to an AIDS patient, say 35 years old, has a life expectancy now of 20 years and counting - and at $65,000 a year that's 1.3 MILLION. And that's just direct medical costs, (although those might go down someday.)

So one AIDS patient costs in medical care about as much as 15 lung cancer patients - and that is only if you believe lung cancer patients cost the state a dime - as I said I think they save the state money in the long run.

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Tom you are obviously math challenged.

We have 1000 total AIDs patients in Maine. We create that many new lung cancer patients every year. Plus many other cancers heart disease, ect. that are related to smoking.

AIDs gets lots of publicity because of politics and sex.

By the way, there are only 9000 nursing home beds in Maine. Most people will live their whole lives without seeing the inside of a nursing home.

Dying of cancer costs a lot of money whether you do it at 40 or 70. Your idea that dying early saves money is silly.

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

Over 550,000 Americans each year die of lung cancer.

Less than 20,000 Americans each year die of AIDs.

...---...
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 4 months ago
Joined: 12/18/2006 - 9:12am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

So why tax people more who engage in "unhealthy behavior"?

cause they can.

If they were to make sense about it the health insurance premiums would be higher
on these people not their taxes which end up in the general fund.

Government scam that's all.

Tap into any viable revenue stream for all it's worth till they squeal like pigs then find another stream.

Dan Billings
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Baldez $1-a-pack tax increase may be up in smoke

[quote="...---..."]If they were to make sense about it the health insurance premiums would be higher
on these people not their taxes which end up in the general fund.[/quote]

If the government allowed health insurance premiums to be set that way, people who smoke or are overweight would pay more. Maine law does not allow that.

Life insurance premiums do take such things into account.

Pages

Log in to post comments