quote: If that uprising included illegal activity it would be lawless.
Thanks for the clarification, George. We authors can get very confused by these legal fine points, especially if our meds aren't being managed properly.
Berkeley lecturer urges 'uprising' against U.S.
Muslim scholar declares at rally 'you haven't seen radicalism yet!' Posted: April 13, 2004
1:00 a.m. EasternÂ© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com A University of California at Berkeley lecturer speaking at an anti-war rally Saturday called for a Palestinian-style intifada, or uprising, against the United States in response to American actions in the Middle East. Hatem Bazian, a native Palestinian with a Ph.D. in Islamic studies, stirred up the San Francisco crowd, asking three times, to resounding affirmations, "Are you angry?" U.C. Berkeley lecturer Hatem Bazian The comments at the outdoor rally held at United Nation's Plaza were caught on a digital camera's movie format by a reader of the popular weblog Little Green Footballs. An estimated 2,000 to 3,000 people attended the "emergency" action organized by the radical anti-war group International A.N.S.W.E.R. in response to the increased fighting in the Iraqi city of Fallujah. The International A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition is an umbrella group tied to the World Workers Party, a Marxist organization that supports authoritarian regimes and communist dictatorships. The lecturer in Berkeley's Near Eastern Studies and Ethnic Studies Departments continued: "Well, we've been watching intifada in Palestine, we've been watching an uprising in Iraq, and the question is that what are we doing? How come we don't have an intifada in this country?
Because it seem[s] to me, that we are comfortable in where we are, watching CNN, ABC, NBC, Fox, and all these mainstream ... giving us a window to the world while the world is being managed from Washington, from New York, from every other place in here in San Francisco: Chevron, Bechtel, [Carlyle?] Group, Halliburton; every one of those lying, cheating, stealing, deceiving individuals are in our country and we're sitting here and watching the world pass by, people being bombed, and it's about time that we have an intifada in this country that change[s] fundamentally the political dynamics in here. And we know every â€“ They're gonna say some Palestinian being too radical â€“ well, you haven't seen radicalism yet!"On his website, Bazian says he teaches courses on Islam, Islamic law, Sufisim, Arabic, and politics of the Middle East at U.C. Berkeley as well as at San Francisco State University, Berkeley Graduate Theological Union and Diablo Valley College. He also provides "guidance to the community on issues pertaining to Islam and Muslims in the Bay Area." Bazim, his website says, was chairman of the U.C. Berkeley Graduate Assembly and from 1995-1999 was coordinator of the Graduate Minority Students Project of the Graduate Assembly, "through which he spearheaded statewide efforts to defeat proposition 209," which sought to eliminate affirmative action programs in California. He is co-host and assistant producer of the radio program "Islam Today" in the Bay Area and was a translation consultant for the San Francisco Chronicle on stories relating to Islam, Muslims and world politics. Vietnam will be 'child's play' At the rally Saturday, Bazian said the Vietnam War will be regarded as "child's play" compared to the U.S. experience in Iraq: "And the people in Iraq understand who's the foreigner in the country. It's not the Arabs who are coming to help. Even if more Arabs who come to help, they understand who's helping and who's opposing them. The â€“ it took the British three years to unite the Iraqis against them. And it took less than a year for the â€“ for the Bush administration to unite all the Iraqis. And they need to understand: what took place in Vietnam will be child's play to what will take place in Iraq ... ."
A Berkeley student at the rally expressed support for Iraqi attacks on U.S. troops, charging "the occupation is a source of tremendous violence against Iraqis." "In light of that, you know, I think we've got to support the resistance; we've got to say that we support attacks against the occupying forces," he said. 'So I mean â€“ and you can imagine what kind of an inspiring thing that is for people in Palestine, for people in Bolivia, for people in Argentina, Colombia, all over the world, facing down the barrel of a US-supplied gun. Seeing the people of Iraq fight back, that's what we need."
An unidentified speaker encouraged attacks on U.S. troops worldwide: "We stand here â€“ we stand here recognizing that the war on Iraq is illegal, that the war on Iraq is illegal, and that resistance, that resistance against this war is protected by international law. It is legitimate, and that we â€“ and we in this movement support the resistance against American imperialism by any means necessary."
The same people who are whining about our involvement in the middle east would be apoplectic if we just sat back and let the bastards pound the crap out of each other. "How many more people must die, Mr. Speaker!"If Abdul doesn't like it stateside, he is free to leave...preferably as soon as possible.Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
I don't know what our legal system now defines "sedition" as, but here is what Websters says:"The raising of commotion in a state, not amounting to insurrection; conduct tending to treason, but without an overt act; excitement of discontent against the government, or of resistance to lawful authority."
You're reaching here Bob, don't think there's been a successful charge of sedition in 60 years. The 1st amendment Bob, remember? Correct me if I'm wrong, Please!
Like I said, I'm no lawyer. The definition matches up well to the statements allegedly made as I read the English language. He has a right to say it, but there is a law concerning sedition.One day we hear about the St. Pete Demo Club calling for Rumsfeld to be lined up against a wall and shot. The next we hear about an academe calling for support for attacks on our soldiers. When is this going to stop?
Thanks, George. I don't think I'll be inviting him over to our July 4th Barb-B-Q, however. :cool:
With our penchant for moral relativism and multiculturalism, it may be free speech now, but somewhere down the road, it will be a fatwa to be acted upon. And it will have been issued with sponsorship of the taxpayers.And a year later, there'll be a commission established to figure out who the idiot was that missed all the signs that something like this was going to happen.
Sounds like sedition to me.
quote:Originally posted by George:
[b]The constitutional guarantee of free speech, particularly on matters of public concern, is so broad that it protects even the advocacy of illegal activity. See, e.g., Noto v. United States, 367 U.S. 290, 298 (1961); Yates v. United States, 354 U.S. 298, 318 (1957). An extremely narrow exception to this rule allows punishment or prohibition of speech that "is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to induce or produce such action." Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444, 447 (1969). The statements above were not likely to incite imminent lawless action.[/b]
So eminently erudite. Thus, it follows that running out of a non-burning theater is a lawless action, having been induced by the yelling of "Fire"... in the absence of same.
Bob, you ask when is it going to stop? I do believe it is not going to stop. I futher believe that it is going to get steadily worse until we have a version of the Boston Tea Party. After that I have no idea what will happen. That will depend strictly upon the people and how bad they want a constitutional government and how well our present government has pushed socialism upon the American people. I do hope that I am here to see the results.
Bud[ 04-15-2004: Message edited by: budlandry@mid ]
No one is paying attention to these morons. Colleges and universities will always pay lip service to any dissent. The more serious concerns are the financial and support networks that have infiltrated mosques and Islamic organizations in the U.S. The real threat inside this country does not shout it's mission; it whispers.
In that regard, this guy may be the Islamic fascist candidate for President some 15 or 20 years down the pike when they push for an Islam based theocracy, all with the support of US taxpayers and citizens.Where's a McCarthy when you need him?
God save me but I think I agree with Bob on this one.Its one thing to say you disagree with policy. Heck, you can even say "I hope our troops fail and are killed."Its another thing altogether to say "we should support the killing of US troops."In my mind that qualifies as sedition.Chris.
I recall you didn't seem to think God was necessary. And now you are asking for his help?That's progress.
You're a lawyer, LL? You had to have flunked free speach 101 to make a statement such as that.charlie
Can someone tell me if an intifada against us would be lawless activity?I found this: organized opposition to authority; a conflict in which one faction tries to wrest control from another. I know George will show the way. But George, is an intifada, as we know these muslims interpret it, lawless or not?Following that, do the actions here incite an intifada?From your average country bumpkin, who awaits the usual defense lawyer rationalization that it was just a "figure of speech," "a heat of the moment poor choice of language," or "something an average citizen would not see as an exhortation to lawlessness or violence."And we wonder how we got ourselves into a situation where terrorism could be so successful, so easily.