Bill to make Bitcoin illegal & make civil forfeiture easier

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anonymous_coward
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Bill to make Bitcoin illegal & make civil forfeiture easier

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/1241/text#toc-i...

Bipartisan (Grassley & Cornyn on the GOP; Feinstein & Whitehouse for the Dems) senate bill to empower the government to take your stuff.

Figures that both sides come to an agreement on stealing from you!

Mark T. Cenci
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Maybe we agree this is

Maybe we agree this is terrible policy.

If so, i need to give you more respect.

Mike G
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Now that is a surprise, the

Now that is a surprise, the Democrats and Republicans colluding to steal more wealth from the citizenry.

And to make Bitcoin illegal !!! wow, never saw that coming. What next? abolish cash? have all transactions digital, naw, couldn't be.

Make private possession of Gold and Silver illegal? The government would never do that, government loves us.

Well maybe they will change the pot laws so we can all stay stoned all the time.

Bruce Libby
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This appears to address stuff

This appears to address "stuff" that is illegally obtained.

anonymous_coward
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Well it also changes what

Well it also changes what "illegal" means. If you travel with $10,000 in cash and don't fill out the proper paperwork, they can seize all of it immediately and throw you in prison for up to 10 years.

It also makes any company that sells prepaid anything (phones, credit cards, gift cards) required to inform the government of sales.

Here is zerohedge's take:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-14/you-wont-believe-stupid-new-law...

anonymous_coward
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"Maybe we agree this is

"Maybe we agree this is terrible policy.

If so, i need to give you more respect."

I think we can all agree that this bill is a giant pile of stinky dog poop. It's about as big-brother big-state government as you can get.

Mark T. Cenci
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Yes. Awful. The private

Yes. Awful. The private banking Fed ruins the currency and their strong arm enforcers prevent us from freeing ourselves from it.

Cryptocurrencies have no derivatives associated with them and the Bankster crooks cant ruin their value

Bruce Libby
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AC what happens if you take

AC what happens if you take 10k in cash out without proper documentation/reporting. ?

anonymous_coward
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"Cryptocurrencies have no

"Cryptocurrencies have no derivatives associated with them and the Bankster crooks cant ruin their value"

Bitcoin options & futures exchange:

https://www.deribit.com/

anonymous_coward
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"AC what happens if you take

"AC what happens if you take 10k in cash out without proper documentation/reporting. ?"

I believe it's not illegal, but if the police stop you, they can seize it. You can probably get it back if you sue them but really is that the kind of country we want to live in?

taxfoe
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From the zerohedge link:

From the zerohedge link:

"So theoretically if you leave the US with more than $10,000 in Bitcoin or Ether, you’d have to confess this fact to the authorities or otherwise face the aforementioned penalties, i.e. prison time, civil asset forfeiture, etc."

xxxx

Is there such a thing as 'physical' bitcoin (or other crypto-loot) to declare? It seems to me that, in it's digital form, at least, an owner would be 'in possession of' at anytime the owner has access to the internet

Come to think of it, Sprint is my ISP and their data/wifi services suck and they all do when you get too rural. While I generally agree with any attempts to usurp the banking monopolies, what good is crypto-loot when you need it most, say when the average, maniacal, dictator tyrant . . or the weather . . takes down the grid?

xxx

Since I brought it up . . CBS is reporting, today . .

Cellphone, internet outages reported across the U.S.

SOURCE

Verizon outage map: http://downdetector.com/status/verizon/map/ 
T-Mobile  outage map: http://downdetector.com/status/t-mobile/map/
Sprint outage map: http://downdetector.com/status/sprint/map
AT&T outage map: http://downdetector.com/status/att/map/

Mike G
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Apparently government and

Apparently government and that means silly Susan and Angus King can do whatever they damn well please, just watch them

anonymous_coward
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"Cellphone, internet outages

"Cellphone, internet outages reported across the U.S."

Didn't I see this on an episode of House of Cards?

anonymous_coward
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"Is there such a thing as

"Is there such a thing as 'physical' bitcoin (or other crypto-loot) to declare? It seems to me that, in it's digital form, at least, an owner would be 'in possession of' at anytime the owner has access to the internet"

No. You could have a physical copy of your wallet key, or a USB stick or computer that has your wallet key information on it, but the ownership of bitcoin (that is, association between bitcoins and a wallet) is just defined in the global shared ledger.

Of course, "ownership" of a wallet is somewhat vague. If two people have access to the key, do the both own the wallet? If someone slips a USB key into my carry on luggage, can I be arrested? I guess you could say that physically having a key (either paper or digitally) could constitute ownership, but what if I stored my key online? Can I be arrested for getting on a plane with access to an online key?

I could go on but you get the idea.

taxfoe
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I do and that's my point.

I do and that's my point. The law apparently seeks to transform Bitcoin into rope. Enthusiasts might see it as a lifeline while Customs might see it as a noose. Declaring it is a red flag for closer scrutiny. Not declaring it earns a trip to jail. I believe it would mean any amount but we'll stick with +$10k, for now.

Paranoia? I probably shouldn't have consumed as much Everclear as I have but here goes: I can't find or remember enough about a thread that was discussed here at AMG. It involved a college professor and a Greek lecturer. In the eyes of the TSA (at least) there was some hanky panky between them. TSA confronted the lecturer as he tried to enter the country and the professor who was there to pick him up.

What followed was quite remarkable. It was clear from their line of/ the specificity of their questions that TSA had been monitoring real time, electronic communications between the two. It was the kind of stuff that never should have made the news but someone from TSA screwed up all the procedures.

The point is, the street level TSA has the tools to search your electronic underwear. Sure wish I could find that thread.

Toolsmith
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Another take on the anti

Another take on the anti-digital-currency bill...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/19/digital-funds-methods-bl...

taxfoe
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In Toolsmith's link*, read

In Toolsmith's link*, read the question that is the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph from the bottom.

Brilliant minds wonder alike.

*Text is copy proofed.

Toolsmith
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"Are government officials

"Are government officials going to electronically intrude into all of our smart phones and electronic devices looking for atoms that might represent money, when they can’t find thousands of tons of drugs crossing the border?"

Yeah, I'm wondering... we can just hire a mule to carry the crypto over the Mexican border.

anonymous_coward
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If the government weren't so

If the government weren't so retarded, they could start their own dollar backed cryptocurrency, working with the big banks. They could do all their big brother tracking shit, but still retain the benefits of instantaneous settlement (which is why checks suck), geographical distance (why cash sucks), and counterparty authentication (which is why credit cards suck).

They could easily crowd out the use of bitcoin, tanking its value. Plus, if it were dollar backed, the value wouldn't be volatile like bitcoin (which is one reason most normal people stay away from it).

Toolsmith
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AC, that assumes that anyone

AC, that assumes that anyone in DC actually *understands* it... the bill confirms that no one does.

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