Bitcoin at $2400

20 posts / 0 new
Last post
anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
Bitcoin at $2400

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-24/bitcoin-explodes-above-2400-aft...

Yeah, I'm all for crypto currencies but that's a pretty high price.

What will truly be interesting is how the competition between the different crypto-currencies plays out. Bitcoin is the leader but Ethereum and Ripple are really not very far behind:
https://coinmarketcap.com/

Mike G
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 02/17/2000 - 1:01am
Many say this is a rejection

Many say this is a rejection of the dollar as the world currency, the upswing on crypto is astounding, would I sink any value into crypto that is totally dependent on the internet or electricity no, but would have been nice to have got in on ground floor 10 years ago or even 3 months ago. If you could get actually get hard assets right now, WOW. Us peons are always behind the times!

Many say this is exactly why Trump has become Mr Flip-Flop, Prince King Saud are our friends, maybe he can let out a tweet how the petro- dollar is about to crash like a shot down Iranian Airliner.

Not bloody likely Ivanka and hubby Kushner might have to cash in a house or two, the asshole politicians we have elected are all just skimming the fat off a dying corpse while they can, may they all rot in hell.

john w k
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: 01/01/2002 - 1:01am
The bitcoin crap has the same

The bitcoin crap has the same flaw as trading in Federal Reserve Notes ___ in each case you are trading in the shadow and not the substance.

JWK

"Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none have been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money. This is the most effectual of inventions to fertilize the rich man's field by the sweat of the poor man's brow."___Daniel Webster.

john w k
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: 01/01/2002 - 1:01am
"Many say this is a rejection

"Many say this is a rejection of the dollar"

The dollar is not being rejected. What may be rejected is the Federal Reserve Note.

Keep in mind the dollar is in fact increasing in value as compared to a Federal Reserve Note.

JWK

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
@johnwk: "The bitcoin crap

@johnwk: "The bitcoin crap has the same flaw as trading in Federal Reserve Notes ___ in each case you are trading in the shadow and not the substance."

There is a very significant fundamental difference. The money supply of dollars is controlled by a central bank, which is in turn loosely controlled by the federal government. Transactions themselves are very strictly controlled by the government as well (for taxation purposes).

If the government decides that the dollar should be deflated and no other currency can be used (like they are doing in Venezuela), you as a citizen are basically screwed.

The bitcoin supply, is built into the fabric of the software that handles transactions. And, it's competing against other crypto currencies that also have the supply limited by software, so if someone managed to control more than half of the bitcoin processors (difficult to do, but theoretically possible), users could simply switch to another currency.

taxfoe
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 58 min ago
Joined: 03/22/2000 - 1:01am
I don't get Bitcoin. I'm

I don't get Bitcoin. I'm happy to admit I don't even know of what I don't know. I think I get that BCs come into existence only when someone wants them too. Can it also be said that ' . . when anyone wants them to'? Either way, where does the intrinsic value come from? Does BC have intrinsic value? Why do gullible little kids trade family cows for magic beans?

A $2400 bill would be inconvenient at most beer stores. Are there fractional BCs?

I should have known: BITCOIN FOR DUMMIES

My humanity is intact. I asked questions before I searched.

I didn't buy it but it's description begs more questions:

Roger Ek
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 20 min ago
Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
Bit coins are like carbon

Bit coins are like carbon credits. Baldacci bought carbon credits with our tax dollars. Those carbon credits are worth 18 cents each last time I looked. The trick is to sell just before people figure it out.

john w k
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: 01/01/2002 - 1:01am
There is no fundamental

There is no fundamental difference between trading in bitcoins and Federal Reserve Notes. In each case you are trading in an imaginary unit of wealth, i.e., "trading in the shadow and not the substance" which opens the door to countless schemes and treachery.

However, unlike Federal Reserve Notes, bitcoins are not a "Legal Tender for all Debts, public and private". Federal Reserve Notes have been made a legal tender in spite of our founder’s specific intention to forbid notes of "any kind" to be made a legal tender, and for good cause! See http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/debates_816.asp

Our government, having unconstitutionally made Federal Reserve Notes a legal tender, have created a money monopoly for a private banking institution and have opened the door to all kinds of thievery, slide of hand and corruption connected to paper money schemes of the past.

Almost all of our current economic sufferings can be traced to a dishonest money system and a dishonest taxing system which currently allows our corrupted federal government to plunder and redistribute real material wealth which is created by labor and industry.

JWK

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered." ___ Author unknown

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
john is correct when he says,

john is correct when he says, "There is no fundamental difference between trading in bitcoins and Federal Reserve Notes. In each case you are trading in an imaginary unit of wealth, i.e., "trading in the shadow and not the substance" which opens the door to countless schemes and treachery."

At the end of the day, you are buying something that you can sell for a price at a later date.

Gold has value now because it's something people want - they will trade goods and services for it. If there were a zombie apocalypse, the valuable currency would not be gold but weapons, gasoline, and replacement parts for things.

Bitcoins have value because:
1) there is a limited number, so is no inflationary risk (unlike central bank maintained currencies)
2) they can be transacted quickly and securely, so there is no counterparty risk (unlike a check, which takes several weeks to fully clear, or a credit card, where the counterparty risk gets transferred to a third party).
3) they can be transacted across long geographical distances (unlike cash)
4) the transaction ledger is decentralized, so no one power can tamper with your account (this is not really an issue with bank accounts unless they are in third world nations)

The primary threat to bitcoin value is the rise of other cryptocurrencies. There are certain aspects of bitcoin that some people don't like (lack of anonymity, for example) and so it's possible that bitcoin's popularity might wane over time.

(The other threat to all cryptocurrencies is the possibility of quantum computing, but most people feel that that's a ways off.)

john w k
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: 01/01/2002 - 1:01am
Unlike gold, silver, weapons,

Unlike gold, silver, weapons, food, clothing, a cow and chickens, all of which are commodities and have a useful and intrinsic value, bitcoins are a figment of the imagination and have no intrinsic value. They are similar to Federal Reserve Notes created out of thin air by a private banking system which are used to plunder real material wealth created by labor, business and industry.

JWK

"Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring class of mankind, none have been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money. This is the most effectual of inventions to fertilize the rich man's field by the sweat of the poor man's brow." ___ Daniel Webster

Mike G
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 02/17/2000 - 1:01am
http://www.paulcraigroberts

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/05/31/bitcoin-standing-gold/

Rigging the bullion price prevents gold and silver from transmitting to the currency market the devaluation of the dollar that the Federal Reserve’s money creation is causing. It is the ability to rig the bullion price that protects the dollar’s value from being destroyed by the Federal Reserve’s printing press.

Recently, the price of a Bitcoin has skyrocketed, rising in a few weeks from $1,000 to $2,200. Two explanations suggest themselves. One is that the Federal Reserve has decided to rid itself of a competing currency and is driving up the price with purchases while accumulating a large position, which then will be suddenly dumped in order to crash the market and scare away potential users from Bitcoins. Remember, the Fed can create all the money it wishes and, thereby, doesn’t have to worry about losses.

Another explanation is that people concerned about the fiat currencies but frustrated in their attempts to take refuge in bullion have recognized that the supply of Bitcoin is fixed and Bitcoin futures must be covered. It is strictly impossible for any central bank to increase the supply of Bitcoins. Thus Bitcoin is standing in for the suppressed function of gold and silver.

When you have central banks that can create dollars without any concern of debt, consequences and losses, the ability to buy and sell any asset? how can this be considered capitalism and free markets and not a controlled economy, so similar to the Chinese control and now our own fascism.

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
2900http://www.zerohedge.com

2900
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-06/its-pure-frenzy-bitcoin-extends...

Stay away from anything this frothy, including equities, unless you are a full time gambler

Mike G
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 02/17/2000 - 1:01am
JWK

JWK

I've tried to understand how bitcoin can have some intrinsic value and other than because people are willing to give it some, I can't see it. I'd agree that it and fiat money are similar in value as both are made out of thin air.

The value of fiat money though comes from government force, while bitcoin's value might come from user's acceptance.

I'd hope that Bitcoin somehow could succeed just to by pass the force and manipulation of the banks and government, but money should have real value. eventually we will be headed towards a value based currency, but I can't see bitcoin being it, and the petrodollar is winding its way out.

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
The value of gold & silver

The value of gold & silver exceed its industrial value - it's pretty much the same thing, the supply is a known quantity and it's impossible to counterfeit.

(One could argue that the value of diamonds even more greatly exceeds its industrial value as the supply is held down by a cartel.)

Do you trust gold?

Roger Ek
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 20 min ago
Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
I trust gold. The only risks

I trust gold. The only risks are theft and government seizure which is another term for theft.

Mike G
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 02/17/2000 - 1:01am
Asking whether I trust gold

Asking whether I trust gold is similar to, do I trust real estate and like Roger said, do I trust government. There lies the danger, what will force do to protect its interest?

History shows that it will do much, it will confiscate gold and it will tax real estate until it owns it.

What will force do with bitcoin? At some point, when they view it as a threat they will out law it, just as they attempting to do with cash in other nations and here, they just talk about it here.

I'm hoping that bitcoin has a good run, that it continues to increase in value, just so we can watch what force does to ban it.

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
"Asking whether I trust gold

"Asking whether I trust gold is similar to, do I trust real estate and like Roger said, do I trust government. There lies the danger, what will force do to protect its interest?"

Well, there are different levels of trust, right? Owning a dollar in cash will get taxed in the form of inflation (likely), but to confiscate gold, they would have to come to your house and take it from you (unlikely). (It's possible they could erode gold's value by flooding the market but they wouldn't do that just to get *you*.)

Control over bitcoin will probably happen at the exchange level. Merchants won't accept them as currency unless they can turn them into dollars, and they can't do that without going through an exchange.

If you really don't trust the government, then you should buy the things that the wealthy have, since they control the government now, and they will bend the government to serve their own interests. Equities, high end real estate (like NY/SF/London) are all good choices.

Roger Ek
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 20 min ago
Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
"Control over bitcoin will

"Control over bitcoin will probably happen at the exchange level. Merchants won't accept them as currency unless they can turn them into dollars, and they can't do that without going through an exchange."

Users of bitcoins do not buy speculative assets. They buy real stuff like skidders, boats, airplanes and real estate. Banks do not take bitcoins as deposits or loan bitcoins. Bitcoins are also used to buy precious metals. State governments have not figured out bitcoins yet and they have no clue how they would tax an asset that cannot be tracked. Much real estate in Maine has been sold for "one dollar and other good and valuable consideration for the last couple of centuries. Just look at some old deeds.

Mike G
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 02/17/2000 - 1:01am
If you really don't trust the

If you really don't trust the government, then you should buy the things that the wealthy have

What kind of idiot trusts government other than those that control it and us peons sure as hell don't.

Buying the things that the wealthy have?

Now that is comical, if I could buy what the wealthy have I wouldn't be bitching on AMG, I'd be sending a campaign contribution to silly Susan to keep the theft of the middle class going. I'd have lots of stock in General Dynamics and Lockheed, any thing related to war profiteering.

Toolsmith
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 15 hours ago
Joined: 07/14/2016 - 11:22am
I would remind everyone that

I would remind everyone that regarding seizure of gold by the government... FDR did precisely that in 1933. It was illegal to own gold for several decades, even gold coins. Few gold coins survived.

Log in to post comments