Black Friday vs Jesus

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Stephen Carmichael
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Black Friday vs Jesus

Given that the day after Thanksgiving is the unofficial start of the birthday celebration of Jesus, is it not against the teachings of Jesus to turn this season into an economic indicator and shopping bizarre rather then a time of spiritual reflection.

There seems to be nothing holly about such a consumer zombie like mentality when the holiday season has contradicting theams and yet good Christian people defend this Black day as a market idol.

Stephen Carmichael
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The drug company for ALEVE is

The drug company for ALEVE is running an add in Better Home and Garden that is depicting a person in a Santa suit holding out their hands with both full of drugs. One hand has two Alive the other eight tylonol. Is Santa a drug seeker?

How do you explain this to a child?

KennyRoberts
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Stephen, Someone owes you a

Stephen,
Someone owes you a response for your righteous questioning.
Given that you ponder the matter shows spiritual growth. None of us is full grown yet and we go through dry spells of stagnation but
it is encouraging to hear someone stop for a moment and consider eternal matters.

I don't do Christmas or bunny rabbits with chicken eggs.

Tom C
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That seems kind of harsh -

That seems kind of harsh - you don't "do Christmas"? No tree, no presents, no family dinner?

I despise the materialism of the holidays, but I will always do something, even if it's just serve Christmas dinner at the homeless shelter, (which was last year's Christmas.)

KennyRoberts
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it is a personal preference

it is a personal preference thing Tom. I always worked holidays so that men with families could be home. I have a family now, but still work holidays.
Over the years I noticed a trend in the general public that from Thanksgiving Day to New Years day, people were nice and holiday greetings, generosity, etc., but after New Years day they were grumpy, grouchy and thankful for nothing.
It seemed to me that the false joys of these holidays followed by the stark reality of January wasn't worth the artificial "high".
I appreciate that you do something to make holidays special for homeless, etc., but I considered that there are hundreds of days a year when other people are less giving. From reading your posts I have the impression that you also are a man with a generous heart towards your fellow man all year long, not merely on special days.
My wife and I are more than joyful givers every day that we can find someone who needs encouragement and a blessing. I donate weekly into a Christmas for Kiwanis children fund. I gave away an inspected car last year to a couple that I don't particularly care for but they needed the resource. I am not wealthy monetarily, but do all I can. There will be no U-Haul truck in my funeral procession.

Most or all of our holidays honor pagan deities, mostly fertility rites and solstice observances. You are not honoring YAHWAH by celebrating those. I personally fear YAHWAH and all though I fall miserably short of knowing all of His prescribed feasts and observances, would prefer not to go out of my way to annoy Him more than normal.

Yashua, really YAH shu WAH, said that if we loved Him to keep His commandments. He said that if we say that we love Him and keep not His commandments, the truth is not in us and we are liars. Those commandments speak against gluttony during feasting, greed, and a whole bunch of other instructions towards better living. The carefree,hedonistic lifestyle we have in this country can be shut down in a moment.

I have heard but never checked out that Hebrews do not mark or celebrate birthdays.I do know that Jeremiah said that the day of a man's death is much better than that of his birth.
X-mas trees
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Jer 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Stephen Carmichael
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I have worked many a

I have worked many a Christmas in the house of purgatory we call jail. This service to me is enough sacrifice.

My family has reduce Christmas to just a few simple gifts that are needed. My wife wanted to have a recycling Christmas where nothing new was undefined the tree. It has yet to happen.

Anyhow the story of Christmas tells of the three wise men traveling from afar to being riches and gifts. It also tells of the poor Drummer Boy who has nothing to give, but his music. How this turned into chaotic zombies searching for carts full of junk, I don't have an explanation other then dark forces at work.

Tom C
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How this turned into chaotic

How this turned into chaotic zombies searching for carts full of junk, I don't have an explanation other then dark forces at work.

All that cr@p on TV.

Media is driven by advertising and advertising is driven by retail. Shut off the TV, radios and newspapers, and you'll miss at least 95% of the fanatical materialism.

KennyRoberts
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Stephen, I don't know your

Stephen,
I don't know your religious views and am not inquiring, but if you are average Catholic or Protestant, you could direct your children towards the cover story the merchants hide behind. As you say the wise men, read about it in Matthew 2nd chapter. They did not find a baby in a manger with a drummer boy nearby, that is embellishment to make the story more interesting somehow. They found a child that was around two years.

Mat 2:2 Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we saw his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

They knew a King had been born and were there to worship him. (It is supposed to be Jesus' birthday, not ours)

The gospel according to Linus,(Peanuts comics)

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Find those classics on TV like the Peanuts Christmas story, the old scrooge film, there are some secular ones I would skip like santa claus/macy one, but it is cute in a way. It is not about us, it is about loving others as The Lord showed his love towards us.

In the Book of the Revelation, two last day prophets cause terrible judgements and when they are slain they are so despised that their bodies are left in the streets so everyone can see them and rejoice that they have been killed. People at this time make merry and give gifts to each other in celebration that these two men of God are finally dead. (you need not share this with the children, its for your info) That is more the merchant's christmas spirit today rather than a day to reverence your Creator.

KennyRoberts
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Stephen, The drug question is

Stephen,
The drug question is perplexing. There is a concerted effort to outlaw any natural healing methods including nutritious food. Monsanto, Dow Chemical, and a couple others have been altering seed crops so that God given foods are being contaminated permanently. Animals are feed these grains and we eat them. Obesity is running rampent because we eat chickens, turkeys, and beef that have been injected with growth hormones. They are killing us in the foods. NEVER eat anything that has high fructose corn syrup in the first 4 ingredients, or at all if possible.

Drugs... make your own conclusions, I'm just saying...
generally speaking, our prescriptions are intended to make us dependent for the rest of our lives to maintain our infirmity, not cure it.
Deut. 28 speaks of a curse of mold fungus being a result of our disobedience to the Laws. Some people think that acidity and mold fungus cause most of our infirmities. Alkalinity and other treatments could eliminate the need for chemicals. I hear that the artificial Vitamin C we take made artificially from ascorbic acid actually stifles natural DNA cell reproduction when we are ill. If you take Vitamins, only go natural sources, no artificial chemical compounds that are worthless. This is why Europe and we are banning normal cures by law. I heard that some doctor in Italy had hopeful results bytreating a cancer with baking soda and real maple syrup. Don't know the details, but heavy doses of real Vit C and D-3 also encourage natural ability of the the body to defeat all invaders.

http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/codex-alimentarius.html

Rev 9:21 and they repented not of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The Strong's concordance lists sorcery as coming from the Greek word Pharmakeia.

G5331
φαρμακεία
pharmakeia
far-mak-i'-ah
From G5332; medication (“pharmacy”), that is, (by extension) magic (literal or figurative): - sorcery, witchcraft.

I feel obligated to share information. I really don't care if it is ignored, discounted, eyes roll, who cares, time will reveal whether something has merit or not. I'd rather share and risk appearing to be extreme or a nut than to with hold potentially beneficial information. I am always seeking real information, there is always going to be disinformation agents paid to confuse the issues, but Hosea 4:6 states:

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.

and now you know...the rest of the story...

Stephen Carmichael
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Tom I don't think simple

Tom
I don't think simple advertising can account for the influx of meaningless consumer impulsive buying. I recently watched a tv show that focused on the top 1% of worth and the new wave of fresh millionaires have been striving to make a status mark by driving up bids at auctions for goods. As a culture and society we have placed material items at the top of a pedestal as a measure of success. This holds true in all classes.

LMD
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Stephen writes: How this

Stephen writes:
How this turned into chaotic zombies searching for carts full of junk, I don't have an explanation other then dark forces at work.

Stephen,
I would offer it all started long ago. That the cause for such gross materialism (pursuit of worldliness) exhibited by 'Black Friday shoppers' and throughout 'the Christmas season' has at its core the same human traits as described in [url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=3&v=1&t=NKJV#1]Genesis 3[/url].

You're familiar with Adam & Eve, the garden of Eden, the temptation, sin, and the fall of mankind...

Adam's sin, if you will, was open rebellion against a command he had received directly from God (before Eve was even made):
[url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=2&v=16&t=NKJV#16]Genesis 2:16,17[/url]
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

So, what does Adam do when Eve presents him with this 'forbidden' fruit she had already chosen to eat? He was the one that received this command directly from God. That's something we'd all like to think we wouldn't forget or dare to ignore, right?
It's not like he was starving. God provided 'food' they could 'freely eat'; they would never go hungry. Instead, Adam decided to nosh right along with his wife.
Would we have done the same?

With regards to Eve and her sin - the serpent had effectively caused her to question God's word (the command God gave to Adam, who then related it to Eve) by planting the seed of doubt and confusion in her head. (Satan is still in that crafty business today.) Eve listened to him. She ponders what he presents to her. She decides to go ahead and partake of the 'forbidden' fruit even though she knows God provides for all of their needs. Then she decides to share it with her husband.

Take a look at the 'reasons' behind her decision:
Genesis 3:16
So when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make [one] wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

Her reasons?
~good for food (lust of the flesh)
~pleasant to the eyes (lust of the eyes)
~to make [one] wise (pride of life)

These are the same three described by John in the New Testament book [url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=2#comm/16]1 John 2:16[/url]:
For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

I would say those are the "dark forces at work" that we all see displayed at this time of year. Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, the pride of life (knowledge, power). To a greater or lesser degree we ALL struggle with those - Christians and non-believers alike. As the verse says, if we're partaking in those lusts and prides, we are of the world, and not of the Father.

They are easy to identify in those "chaotic zombies" as you called them, whose antics are caught on flim and played ad naseum over the internet or evening news. But, as a believer, I have to continually ask myself if I'm harboring the same traits in my own heart? I do not participate in what I call the "Chaosmas" season such as that of Black Friday frenzied shopping. So, I won't be outwardly exhibiting those traits for all eyes to see.

But, am I silently desiring in my heart some worldly measure of success, monetary or material gain? Am I pursuing it with the same passion as a Black Friday shopper? Am I outwardly exhibiting a sense of 'spirituality' which appears godly, but in actuality is more worldly? These are just questions I have to ask myself...

Stephen Carmichael
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Original Sin is a good

Original Sin is a good starting place for human behavior. This thread is developing into what I had hoped it would a discussion of how far gone the culture is and if it can be saved.

Kenny your not being ignored, but you have contributed many good points.

There is a Christmas Spirit that takes hold of some people this time of year and the joy they feel is inherently ingrained in the human condition. The let down that often follows the season is self inflicted because they same behavior that leads to joy doesn't have a self life. The observed behavior of others can drain on the spirit of do gooders, but the spiritual battery can be recharged when like minds share a common goal.

The Doli Lama has spoke on the topic of happiness and his theams hold true in many faiths. Western culture has taken the path of pharmaceutical happiness a happiness that is self destructive much like the shopping high.

KennyRoberts
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Thanks Stephen. I have a bad

Thanks Stephen. I have a bad habit of looking for the micro (needle) after spreading the macro (haystack) all over the floor.
LMD did a fine work of taking us back to a root cause from which this nasty shrubbery grows. We live in two world simultaneously. We are eternal spiritual beings who have short attention spans and are naturally more attuned to our temporary flesh and blood existence than better matters.

The Dalai Lama as well as people like Gandhi do display a measure of wisdom for living on the planet in peace.

I am studying law concerning a larger court case where the infamous prosecutor is accusing me before The Judge, citing all manners of crimes that I have committed against The Torah.

The prosecutor doesn't need to lie about anything although he is known for that.

I was in a lot of trouble as I am not connected, I am poor and naked and blind, but somehow I have found unmerited favor with The Judge and He has appointed me the most excellent Public Defender. I am now cleaned up in a nice suit of clothing to sit at the trial table while my High Priest, Advocate, and Public Defender shuts down the prosecution point by point. I have a good feeling this will come out really good. I am not "one with everything", but "The One" is everything to me.

I sometimes lose sight of reality thinking that since I didn't steal anything or kill anyone today that I must really be evolving into a superior specimen of mankind. Quality control standards dispel that myth.

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