Body of Rev. Bob Carlson of Bangor Found in Penobscot River
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Courtesy of a Pal:
Be nice, folks.
Thank you.
New Booster Seat Rule for 2011: Children should use a booster seat until they have reached 4 feet 9 inches tall and are between 8 and 12 years old. Your photo may be in violation. lol
It is my understanding that hetrosexuals can marry in Maine if they are 18 years old or over; or at 16 years old with parental consent; or under 16 years with parental consent and the approval of a judge.
Noting the acceptance by some in society of homosexual activity since the 1970's (coincidentally noted as when awareness of pedophilia began to rise): and the possiblility that gay marriage will soon be on the ballot and may be approved by Maine voters; and that the definition of pedophilia by the Encylopedia of Mental Disorders states that many courts interpret that pedophilia refers to children under the age of 18: could gay marriage if legalized in Maine, in effect, legalize pedophilia?
Thanks, Stephen, but it's okay -- the forum was pulled over at the time of the photo.
:)
Hey, Gerald T.!!! Nice to hear from you.
As to whether same sex marriage will legalize pedophilia, there have been some pics floating around on the net of very mature women waiting in packs to catch a glimpse of Justin Bieber.
The 16-year-old singer admits an age gap in a relationship wouldn't bother him, and he would be willing to romance women who are up to 20 years older than he is. He tells ShowbizSpy.com, "Anything above 40 is a little too old for me.
This near hysterical attention began when The Beebs was 14. Are these women pedophiles? If they talked his mother into allowing Bieber to marry one of them, would that be pedophilia? And was Jerry Lee Lewis' marriage pedophilia, or just incest?
Now what if one of these women had a secret relationship with Bieber that lasted 35 years and started when he was 14? Seems to me a lot of people in the Bible were married and had children by that age. Then again, there are very few references to same sex couples in Jewish culture.
One other comment on the Carlson case - absolutely no victims have come forward. Maybe because there is no money in it for them, or maybe because nothing happened. We don't know, and we shouldn't speculate. Anything is possible - he may have killed himself to protect someone else, wife, companion, whoever. We just don't know, but the fact that so many are willing to believe the worst is telling.
As to very few references in the Bible to same-sex couples --
apparently the message of Sodom and Gomorrah has been quite effective (well, at least for several thousand years).
......."absolutely no victims have come forward. Maybe because there is no money in it for them"........
If you were a victim of childhood sexual abuse, or, like me, knew well someone else who was a victim, you would see what is wrong with your statement. Most all childhood sexual abuse victims have a deep sense of shame and guilt connected with the crime. These strong feelings lead them to keep this secret to themselves for the most part. It has only been in recent years that society has begun to show some support for these heretofore "closet victims"
........"Child sexual abuse is a crime of power and control - not sex. Survivors typically know and trust the person who abused them. Regardless of the situation, the abuser is to blame, not the victim"......
........."Adult survivors often suffer from a variety of symptoms that include:
•Depression
•Drug and alcohol abuse
•Panic attacks
•Self-injury
•Trust and intimacy issues
•Flashbacks........."
Adult Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse
I can tell you from personal knowledge that victims, and their families, are extremely reluctant to come forward with these charges, for many of the reasons shown above. I can also tell you that it is not about the MONEY as no amount of money would be big enough to take away the memories of what happened to the victim. Being a Childhood sexual abuse victim is a LIFE sentence!.
I do not know if Rev Carlson was guilty of what has been alleged or not but will say that the fact that he took his own life, just 3 days after the authorities opened an investigation, is very compelling to say the least.
I have always thought suicide to be a "cowards way out" of bad situations. Unforftunately the people the suicides leave behind, then become "victims of a sort" themselves.
In sexual abuse the families of both the "abused" and the "perpetrator" are usually victims. If an accused perpetrator takes his own life, the result of all of that is that he leaves his own family to have to deal with the issues, and there is never any closure for any and all victims.
There are some folks who are trying to make this into a "homosexual" situation where it is often "man?boy" but the experts all say, and I agree fully, that it is all about "power and control". Catholic priests that abused children did so because they were in postions of power over the victims. The catholic church has been served by young boys for centuries. Consequently there was a ready source of young boys, but few young girls were around, thus the overwhelming abuse of boys.
My wife would tell you that the gentleman she encountered molested both boys and girls, and even his own children. It did not seem to matter, as long as it was a child.
WC
Updated: 8:49 AM
Penobscot sheriff leaked investigation to minister before suicide
The Associated Press
BANGOR — The Penobscot County sheriff ...defending his decision to tell friend... Rev. Robert Carlson that he was under investigation by Maine State Police just hours before his suicide.
Sheriff Glenn Ross... felt compelled to tell Carlson.... because Carlson was on the Penobscot County Jail's board of visitors and Ross wanted to limit his access to the jail. Carlson was the jail's chaplain.
Ross denied any ethical breach.
Results of ... department investigation into Carlson's death... released Wednesday.
Rev. Bob Carlson likely exaggerated his credentials
By Eric Russell, BDN Staff
Posted Jan. 13, 2012, at 12:01 p.m.
BANGOR, Maine — ....snip
...Carlson’s claim.....completed graduate studies at...New York Theological Seminary. ...seminary’s president,...said.....no records... a Robert T. Carlson took courses, much less graduated...
....1983 story... in ..Bangor Daily News, Carlson said...received ...bachelor’s degree in sociology from ...University of Maryland.
... University of Maryland said...no record of a Robert T. Carlson graduating....
Carlson claimed.... he received theological training at... Episcopal Theological Seminary in Cambridge, Mass.... Cambridge divinity school said...no record that a Robert T. Carlson received a degree ....
Any sheriff who has to run their mouth about this should just take a deep breath and think about their own houses.
Particularly Washington Cty.. What does a sheriff do lie to the person he wants to restrict from facility?
Here is a news flash it wasn't hard for Carlson to fiqure it out regardless of what was said to him by Sheriff.
Gee,I bet there will be alot of good will and cooperation between those two won't there!
Very mature I will not play in the associations sandbox !!!
In the end this ended very well except for his family and close friends.
Updated: 10:10 AM
Sheriffs group investigates Penobscot sheriff
The Associated Press
MACHIAS — ... Maine Sheriffs' Association... launched an investigation into Penobscot County Sheriff Glenn Ross, who admits he told ... Carlson that he was under investigation for possible child abuse just hours before Carlson's suicide.
At a meeting ... the sheriffs attending agreed that the association would conduct an inquiry into Ross' conduct, a step required by the group's bylaws when a member raises a complaint about another member. Ross is the group's president.
What would be wrong with him telling him he was the subject of an investigation? If it's a true fact, is there a law against it?
After a brief search of their web site I cannot find their by-laws that article said authorized an investigation when a complaint is recieved!
However, I find it interesting that their address is the same as the MAINE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACADEMY in Vasselboro.
Basically this is a lobbying group as far as I know that serves the interests of the 16 sheriffs and not much else.
I make note that there are more police chiefs than sheriffs and they are located in So. Portland.
One would think the story about Sheriff Ross would include a picture of him and not Carlson!!
It's a clubhouse complete with junkets and awards. No one Sheriff needs jack squat from the Maine Sheriffs Association.
So MCJA is the clubhouse Stephen?
Only by default. It's like the Masons using their building and having a few members on the Board of Trustees. They pay dues, have a news letter, do community service stuff, and have a code of conduct. Same goes for the Maine Sheriffs Association.
If the Chaplain was on the pay roll the Sheriff could claim that he was also doing a investigation and giving notice to his employee. This two prong investigation takes place in many lew enforcing agencies and no ethics disputes have been raised.
I found a little something on Sheriffs and the code of ethics that has been charged here with an invetigation of sorts.
"Minimum qualifications for officers. A person may not be appointed to the office of sheriff, be a candidate for election to the office of sheriff or serve as sheriff of any county in the State unless the candidate meets the following qualifications:"
A. The candidate swears to or affirms the Law Enforcement Code of Ethics; Title 30 section 371
The code of law enforcement ethics can be found here MCJA LEO Ethics
However the only person that can bring any solid actions is the County Commissioner who must file a complaint with the Gov:
§441. Removal of sheriff
Whenever the county commissioners find that the sheriff is not faithfully or efficiently performing any duty imposed by this chapter or that the sheriff is improperly exercising or acting outside the sheriff's authority, the commissioners may file a complaint with the Governor describing in detail the facts of those actions or omissions and requesting the Governor to remove the sheriff from office and appoint another sheriff in that office for the remainder of the term. Title 30 section 441
I don't see where the Maine Sheriffs Assocaition has any grounds for an invetigation other then to kick a member out of the club.
I do not know but I have yet to see the qualifications to be a sheriff I do not know there are any constitutionally etc.etc. !
Let's not get carried away w/ should knows etc..
"What would be wrong with him telling him he was the subject of an investigation? If it's a true fact, is there a law against it?"
Tom:
Complete agreement with you. Generally, with employee - types, it is important to inform them of the fact of investigation. Otherwise, if there was evidence that could have been preserved IF you'd known there was a need -- the subject can cry "foul".
There are some circumstances where you wouldn't -- as with an upcoming "sting", or where there is concern about retaliation against witnesses. Investigation of decades old abuse probably isn't among the standard cases to avoid informing the subject.
Former Sheriff Tim Richardson's version questioned... http://tinyurl.com/6pedwrv
"Interestingly, in October 1983, 10 months after Carlson’s resignation and amid all of Richardson’s concerns that Carlson was a pedophile, Richardson commissioned him again as a deputy sheriff, with all of the powers that involved."
"“I don’t know how I got sucked into this mess,” he said.
Then he decided he didn’t wish to comment and hung up."
Without going into much detail, my two interactions with Richardson (once at a traffic stop, and the second when he operated the Airport Mobil) makes me question Richardson's version of his stated course of action involving Carlson.
Dosn't it also depend on what body is conducting the investigation? If the Sheriff is conducting then he has to make full disclosure, however if another party was doing the investigation than what he did was very, very wrong.
TJC summed it up nicely when analyzing situational investigations.
From the posted BDN article: Richardson stated “I don’t know how I got sucked into this mess”.
He knows the answer to his own question. He decided to enter his opinions into an ongoing event to make himself look good and apparently his misinformation has proven that he is less then truthful in his recollections of how he ran the administration. If I were a criminal put behind bars from any of Richardson’s testimonies and felt that he lied on the stand, this story would aid in appealing a sentence.
Robert:
IFrom the reports, it seems that since Carlson had status within Penobscot County, and the Sheriff was changing his status, the Sheriff was a stakeholder in the investigation process. As a "status changing decisionmaker", he was, in fact, making a decision based on facts. He conducted at least a mini-investigation.
Moreover, because Carlson was chaplain, the Sheriff was at least impacting the first amendment religious rights of the inmates. That's best not done arbitrarily.
It would have been best to check with the AG to ask if he would "frig up" the investigation by informing the subject of the fact of the investigation. The flip side would be to ask if he would be exposing the County and himself to potential liability by taking some other course of action. I believe that he took the "least liability" course of action. In the eyes of the Inhabitants of the County, that's the BEST course of action, if legally permissible.
As to things in past about both people mentioned particularly the early 80's , the way issues were looked upon and dealt with were very different from today.
In this era when Carlson was becoming well known ,the County Sheriffs were still very different from today, more political etc. etc.. Sheriffs and the Jails hadn't fallen under the preview of the state yet and at that time were challenging
the state standards being pushed upon them,when the state had none for their facilities.
Being involved in the business in this era and hearing various things granted from inmates one could see there might be problems w/ a person or facility and that might was very slim . As was said in another post here this is more about the intramural squabble in the club than anything else!
Being kind it has to be ones' mind that once you acted a person killed themselves !
John CHapman - if anyone BUT his department was conducting an investigation than would i not be a BETTER course of action for him to ask those investigating to make the rev aware of teh investigation and that because if this his duties at the jail could be suspended - to allow a sheriff to whisper this to him, could be shown in a less than positive light. We'll never know what exactly the sheriff told him, will we?
A reader comment on another site mentioned that informing a suspect in this kind of offense could put potential witnesses at risk of physical harm. I think that's a valid concern.
Naran:
The guy IS gonna be made aware of the witnesses against him. Mandatory. No choice. Carlson is probably a LOT less likely to shove someone in front of a bus if he knows that the authorities know. If he's not sure they know, or thinks they don't, the witnesses is more disposable.
The difference with Mafia bosses is that they have henchpeople. Do Baptists have henchpeople? Not so much north of the Volvo line.
There is one thing missing here and that is any indication that the State Police are in anyway interested in the Sheriff for doing what he did.
Quite likely if they had done the notification thing the result would have been the same.
The State Police have wisely stayed out of the circled firing squad. The are too busy investigating the facts rather then probe empty ethics claims.
The Maine Sheriffs Association could stand to do some self reflection on the ethical issues.
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What a nice rationalization see it really isn't that bad we all have dark places so it is OK? B___ S___!!!!
There is a difference between a dark place and a place(lifes' good deeds) illuminated with glowing "artificial" light to cover up the dark secret!!!!