BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

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JIMV
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

[quote="pmh"]Dash,

Of all the "trippingly off the tongue" phrases, THAT is a good one!

Australia has even tougher gun ownership laws than Canada. After their controls went into force, the rate of homicide by gunshot in New South Wales went up 44%. "Nobody" had any guns - legally, that is - but an awful lot of people got shot. Unless you have a completely totalitarian regime such as Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and the like, gun controls DO NOT WORK.[/quote]

There is not a single case of a country going from gun freedom to gun control where the violent crime rate has not greatly increased...not one.

As gun control never works, why keep doing it?

pmh
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Jim,
It's been my experience that there is an infinite supply of wide-eyed do-gooders who will do what's "best for you," whether you wish it or no. At the risk of ruffling a few unrelated sets of feathers, those would-be do-gooders spring principally (but not exclusively) from the theological right & the political left. Interesting contrast and I offer it ONLY on the basis of personal observation.

I have an alternative theory: there's a seemingly infinite supply of people who have become educated well beyond their capacity for understanding. One outgrowth of this cognitive imbalance is to charge madly through the general state of things posessed of a flaming desire to meddle deeply in the private affairs of those who would far rather be left alone.

democrat
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

I would add, pmh, that that flaming desire is fueled by the knowledge that those who are being meddled with don't have the good sense or education that they do.

pmh
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

I agree. But I would modify my last post. I presented a very personal view of the source of those who would redesign my world when I felt such meddling worrisome if not downright dangerous. I mentioned the extreme right theologian & the extreme left politician. I submit that all else being equal (when was that ever the actual case?) it's the ultra-liberal politician who, to my mind, represents the greater danger. The ultra-conservative theologian is the [i]deeper[/i] danger but has a steeper hill to climb. Both bear close watching, but those in elective office can cause greater damage more quickly than those who must perforce operate behind the scenes.

Mike Travers
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Guns aren't [b]just[/b] for killing things. They're also for preventing things being killed. How long a waiting period should we have before you're [b]allowed[/b] to exercise your right to self defense? A day? 2 weeks? After all the court decisions which state unequivocally that the police [b]have no duty to protect you[/b], we should all go live at the police station whenever we feel threatened?
I love all the feel-good legislation perpetrated by all the people who perceive themselves as reasonable. My son's friend is a Second Lieutenant in the Marine Corps, but he's not allowed to buy ammunition for his .45 because he's under 21. Access to rocket launchers, but not allowed ammo for a pistol.
This woman's son was in the National Guard and was old enough to have access to a [b]tank[/b] and we want to restict his right to buy a shotgun because of what he [b]might[/b] do?
I have inherent rights, not privileges granted by my government.

pmh
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

"... I have inherent rights, not privileges granted by my government."

You have absolute rights (self-defense and mutual aid in defense of the state among them) assured most firmly by the very documents which establish the basis of the government under which you live.

JimP
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

rights endowed by a creator not government.

Anonymous
BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

[size=18]Film on lawmaking applauded[/size]

By Laurie St. Pierre , Staff writer
Monday, January 8, 2007 PHOTO GALLERY

AUBURN - Filmmakers received a standing ovation from more than 80 audience members who attended the premiere of the documentary "There Ought To Be A Law" at Central Maine Community College Sunday afternoon.

The making of the documentary was inspired by Cathy Crowley, mother of 18-year-old Laurier "Larry" Belanger, who killed himself in 2004 with a gun bought at the Auburn Wal-Mart.

[url=http://www.sunjournal.com/story/193543-3/LewistonAuburn/Film_on_lawmakin...

JIMV
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

[quote="democrat"]I would add, pmh, that that flaming desire is fueled by the knowledge that those who are being meddled with don't have the good sense or education that they do.[/quote]

But gun control is the perfect example of pmh's point. It never, ever works and seems to almost always have the exact opposite effect of the one desired by those pushing the agenda. If a program always fails, why push it and how can one claim to be either wiser, to have better sense, or education, and push programs that are demonstrably a failure...

I believe these ideas are pushed by stupid folk convinced of their own wisdom...The brady bunch is like a union for fools.

Dirigo is another example....

JIMV
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

[quote="Mike Travers"]Guns aren't [b]just[/b] for killing things. They're also for preventing things being killed. How long a waiting period should we have before you're [b]allowed[/b] to exercise your right to self defense? A day? 2 weeks? After all the court decisions which state unequivocally that the police [b]have no duty to protect you[/b], we should all go live at the police station whenever we feel threatened?
I love all the feel-good legislation perpetrated by all the people who perceive themselves as reasonable. My son's friend is a Second Lieutenant in the Marine Corps, but he's not allowed to buy ammunition for his .45 because he's under 21. Access to rocket launchers, but not allowed ammo for a pistol.
This woman's son was in the National Guard and was old enough to have access to a [b]tank[/b] and we want to restict his right to buy a shotgun because of what he [b]might[/b] do?
I have inherent rights, not privileges granted by my government.[/quote]

21? I remember being 19 in college and buying ammo for my .45. I used to shoot at a buddies old farm. His dad was the local police....

The country was better when we were free.

Bruce Libby
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

As always one can read the constitution
and infer what they want from ones view of original intent!
Not wishing to argue the rights issue , but observe as in all these
posts the missing concept is a discussion of ones responsibilities
individually or collectively as in a gov. to deal which are brought forth from the right.
I feel the attempts to lay blame on mother here are a little off base and a understanding
of suicide is not as clear as some would like to make it.
Having dealt with numerous people with such tendencies the only thing I have
seen is there is a difference between having thoughts of and the decieson to
perform the act! Yes, availability of vehicle to act can be an issue> The choice is something
that we have yet to understand!

The Distributist
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Bruce, that is a nice, compassionate statement. What does it have to do with the assault on our right, nay, our [i]obligation[/i] to allow (some might say [i]encourage[/i]) gun ownership?

UsuallyConcerned
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Personally, I don't own guns and don't plan on it. However, I think there should be very few restrictions on gun ownership. However, any child that HAD to have a gun and couldn't wait 24 hours or even 5 days for it would make me nervous. I mean, the only GOOD thing that you would need one for that quick was hunting season - but don't y ou know far in advance of when that is?

pmh
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

We still don't know the time frame involving the unfortunate young man whose suicide gave rise to this thread. How long had he owned the gun? The simplest bottom line here is whether there should be some waiting period. Some may see a connection between an answer to my question & the possible merits of a waiting period. I do not. Whether he had had the gun 5 minutes or five years is irrelevant to the situation.

The Distributist
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

From original post:
[quote]When Crowley, a mother of four, learned that her son had bought the shotgun at a Wal-Mart [b]a day and a half[/b] before turning it on himself, she went to the store and talked to a manager: How could an 18-year-old, her baby, simply walk in and buy a gun without a waiting period?[/quote]

Bruce Libby
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Dist. it has nothing to do with the right, as I pointed out ,I am always willing to
conceed the right of the second amendment to each and every body as they see fit.
The problem is with all rights come responsibility I see this as the area that causes issues.
I am not being liberal I just felt bashing mother as a defense of an argument was
not appropriate and anyone can kill themselves with anything is probably as weak an argument
as there is ,used only for a position to support one side of an argument.

Let's see abortion is legal ,agree or disagree with it ,but constitutionally accepted as so. The argument
against the legally established right is all based in one form on a person excersizing
that right and the responsibility or irresponsibility of said right!

Yes. I know that to you probably has nothing to do with 2nd amendment, but to someone
else it probably does, for discussion sake I see the two arguments as basically the same!

They also share one characteristic in that there is little ability to have rational
discussion about either one.

Mike Travers
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

There is no "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" argument here; we know which came first. Rights came first. The people had just won a war against England and came to the table with all their rights. [b]Then[/b] they formed a government in which they granted [b]limited powers[/b] to that government and forbade them the exercise of any others. Just to make sure there were no misunderstandings they listed some "for instances", but cautioned that just because they'd listed some rights, it didn't mean they weren't keeping all the others. They reiterated that the government [b]only[/b] possessed those few, defined powers they'd granted it [see Amendments 9 and 10].
How anyone can read that document and see any power of the government to infringe on the right of peacable people to possess, acquire, or bear arms is beyond me, and I question the motives and the intelligence of anyone who claims such power exists.

mediadog
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

What makes me sad is that the media makes no attempt to do even-handed stories on this issue, an issue which has two sides.

Check out the Sun-Journal story, which is linked in an earlier post. It is skewed unfairly to the anti-gun side, playing heavily on the mother's contention that if her son had not been able to buy a gun at Wal-Mart on short notice, he might be alive today. As somebody here has already pointed out, full blame is attributed to the gun. No doubt that makes the mom feel better, but it is not necessarily the case. Anyway, the Sun-Journal story comes across as a advocacy piece, and that's just poor journalism.

But the Sun-Journal is not alone. Portland's Channel 6 spent about five valuable news minutes on the same issue on Sunday night and in the same one-sided way. Only worse. While the S-J, deep down in the story, allowed sportsman George Smith to put in a half-hearted defense of the present law, Channel 6 was entirely one-sided. Its piece, from beginning to end, was designed to be a blatant tear-jerker.

So you can see what is happening here. The group of anti-gun ideologues who are orchestrating this political movement, are using the media to trumpet and promote their side of the story. And the media appears to be leaping to the opportunity. The press is again allowing itself to be played like a fiddle.

BTW, before somebody says it, i am not a pro-gun ldeologue. I have no quarrel with 24 hour notificiation if it can be proven effective. What I don't like is the media being used -- so willingly --to promote a political cause.

JIMV
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

[quote="pmh"]We still don't know the time frame involving the unfortunate young man whose suicide gave rise to this thread. How long had he owned the gun? The simplest bottom line here is whether there should be some waiting period. Some may see a connection between an answer to my question & the possible merits of a waiting period. I do not. Whether he had had the gun 5 minutes or five years is irrelevant to the situation.[/quote]

When the Clinton administration hired the National Academy of Science (a pro gun control and liberally approved research group) to do a study of the effect of all existing gun control laws, including waiting periods, the study found (millions of dollars later and after over 4 years) that waiting periods had no effect on gun violence (crime, accidents and suicide) statistics. None at all.

Again, if it does not have any effect, why do it??

JimP
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Mediadog, I agree to some extent but I'm not so sure that the MSM are being used as much as they are the ones that are pushing their own personal bias as straight news in concert with the special interest groups. To me that is BS. To many in the media want to change the world and not just report the facts. The best thing one can do is not buy their product. The real newspeople from the days of yore must be spinning in their graves.

JIMV
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Actually, I believe those who make a living advocating for gun control KNOW that these laws never do anything positive. They know that the more restrictions, the higher violent crime, which tends to lead at first to demands for ever stronger laws until the right is gone and crime is out of control. Then the government steps in, feeding on the publics fear of the crime rate, and as the only remaining way to slow the crime. They then grow government, not so much the police but the universe of social service agencies and non profits who were the folk that pushed the gun control that created the problem in the first place.

The left first creates the rising crime situation and then 'solves' it in a way guaranteed to keep the public demanding more...more government and less freedom.

If the public is safe and feels secure, they do not need liberals or government. The left knows this and works 24/7 to insure such a state of safety is never reached.

JIMV
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Gun control laws are like OSHA for criminals.-Thomas Sowell

pmh
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I stand corrected on the time interval. But I reassert my original opinion that waiting periods in particular & gun controls in general DO NOT WORK. (They do inadvertently aid those who were of a mind to evade or violate the law in the first place.)

Bruce Libby
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

I assume then based on above , a statue prohibiting a felon,
who has served his sentence , for a non gun related crime,
from possessing a gun would also be an infringement?

apondsong
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

Well..since it is pretty hard to know how many deaths are prevented by a waiting period...seeing as they never happened...I discount the "it doesn't work" line.

Catherine: I thought if you buy a gun today, you have to have a background check done...so infringment of privacy isn't the issue as far as I can see.

Swampy... I'm a do-gooder too ! :wink:

Mike Travers
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

A person who has completed his sentence and returned to society should not have to give up his or her ability to defend their life or the lives of their families. Should someone scratching out a living in the wilds of Alaska be prohibited from being able to shoot the predators killing his livestock? I see nothing in the Constitution that indicates someone imprisoned for writing bad checks surrenders their Constitutionally guaranteed rights. Do they also give up their right to free speech, their right to trial by a jury of their peers, their freedom of religion? Why is the Second Amendment different from every other Constitutional right?

pmh
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"...how many deaths are prevented by a waiting period...seeing as they never happened...I discount the "it doesn't work" line."

The simple counter here is to look at those cultures where guns have been "removed," i.e., New South Wales, where death by gunshot does not continue but actually increases. The bumper sticker has it right, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

Swampy
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[

Swampy... I'm a do-gooder too ! :wink:[/quote]

Somehow I had no doubts about that! :lol:

JIMV
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

[quote="apondsong"]Well..since it is pretty hard to know how many deaths are prevented by a waiting period...seeing as they never happened...I discount the "it doesn't work" line.

[/quote]

You are kidding, right? If one has a state wide number of gun deaths per year, say 100 and you have a decade long record of that number growing by 1% a year, then you have a data base to study the problem. If you institute a waiting period and the number of gun deaths conitnues to increase 1% a year, you can with a good deal of assurance note that the law has had no measurable effect on such a death rate. If the rate goes up to say 4% a year you can note there is a good chance that the law served to make the problem worse and if it was to drop from a 1% annual increase to a loss of say 1% a year, you can say it has had a positive impact...all said after enough time has passed to be able to make such claims.

The National Academy noted no change in the rate occurred at all.

While such studies cannot predict how any individual will react to such bans, one can say how the total body of all folk in the state are likely to react.

thejohnchapman
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BREAKING DEVELOPMENT Emotional Film Targets Maine Gun Laws

I could see a possible rationale for a previously unqualified purchaser. the "argument" is that you don't know what the hell he or she is going to do with it.

What sense does a waiting period make if the person already owns a firearm just like the one sought for purchase?

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