Ronulans v. non-isolationists (was: Santorum quits POTUS race)

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eagleisland
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Joined: 04/30/2005 - 12:01am
Ronulans v. non-isolationists (was: Santorum quits POTUS race)

Story from NYTIMES. Other media outlets confirming

eagleisland
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Joined: 04/30/2005 - 12:01am
From USA Today. Santorum is

From USA Today.

Santorum is set to speak to reporters shortly in Gettysburg, Pa. It is his first campaign event since taking time off for the Easter holiday and to deal with the hospitalization of his youngest daughter, Bella.

Santorum's campaign was tight-lipped about the candidate's future before the event, but there were signs that the end could be coming. The conference room reserved for the event was small and there were last-minute cancellations of other events in the state.

Apollo
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Joined: 08/19/2004 - 12:01am
IT's OVER. Mitt Romney is now

IT's OVER. Mitt Romney is now the 100%, official, Republican nominee, and it's time for ALL Republicans, including Ron Paul people, to support him. At this point, a vote for Ron Paul is simply a vote for Barack Obama.

Roger Ek
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Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
Romney has no plan to get us

Romney has no plan to get us out of our economic predicament and the collapse of not only our economy, but the collapse of our society. There remains only one candidate with a viable plan for the recovery of our nation. It isn't Romney.

http://www.dailypaul.com/225705/with-santorum-out-one-more-televised-deb...

Islander
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Joined: 02/13/2009 - 12:16pm
Well since it is going to be

Well since it is going to be Romney or Obama looks like the fat lady is warming up.

eagleisland
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Roger (and the rest of Rep.

Roger (and the rest of Rep. Paul's supporters) - let's stipulate, for the sake of discussion, that Dr. Paul has a better plan than does Romney.

IT DOES NOT MATTER.

Dr. Paul's RCP averages have been running between 12 and 13 percent since the first of the year. That's pretty consistent with his numbers in primaries. For better or worse, more than 85% of Republicans don't think Dr. Paul is the guy.

Now, that could make you smarter than everyone else. Regardless, this is likely to be a close election. Dr. Paul's support was no where near big enough to give him a real shot at the White House, but it's definitely big enough to get Obama re-elected if his supporters either throw away their vote on a third-party candidate or refuse to vote at all.

We are, unfortunately, confronted once again with a lesser-of-evils choice. His history suggests that Romney would not be a great president. But we all KNOW that Obama is a disastrous one. Removing him from office as of January of next year should be the top priority.

Mainelion
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Joined: 08/11/2005 - 12:01am
So our choice has come down

So our choice has come down to being beheaded with an axe or a guillotine. Some choice.

eagleisland
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Joined: 04/30/2005 - 12:01am
I wouldn't put it quite that

I wouldn't put it quite that way, Mainelion. From my perspective, Romney most likely won't advance the ball any. But he's unlikely to give up as much yardage as Obama.

I would consider Romney to be a placeholder president until such time as the next wave - and there are some very promising potential candidates in that next wave - is ready to step forward. If Romney wins, it wouldn't break my heart to see a real primary challenge from a Paul Ryan or a Marco Rubio or even Chris Christie emerge in 2015.

Of course, those and others could step forward in 2015 if Obama is re-elected. But given how much damage he's done in his first term, do you really want to see his full agenda put into place, unfettered by the political realities of a re-election campaign? I sure as hell don't.

Jim Corr
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Joined: 05/25/2007 - 4:04pm
Thank you Apollo for breaking

Thank you Apollo for breaking it down for us! I submit to you that the most important choice in this election has yet to be made. Romney will not close the deal with conservatives unless his chosen running mate is someone who appeals to the base. The most likely choice in my opinion would be Rubio. Secondly, both Romney and the party need to embrace at least some of Ron Paul's policies.

I believe Romney should run on a platform that would eliminate all government subsidies for everybody. Wipe it clean. Government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers. With that done, drop the corporate tax rate to 15 per cent. Bring all that off-shore money back. Then dismantle the IRS, and institute some version of a flat tax for all.

Obama is going to wage class warfare during this election and talk about oil companies and everyone else receiving subsidies. Take that card away from him by offering something bold. Shake it up. Offer some solutions about downsizing government and returning power to the states. That's what I want to see!

Nom de Plume
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Ron Paul = Ross Perot

Ron Paul = Ross Perot

Roger Ek
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Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
The opportunity to solve our

The opportunity to solve our problem peacefully is slipping away. It saddens me. We should all remember that the founders of our country practiced dissent, protest and civil disobedience. We honor them as our Founding Fathers today. What followed civil disobedience was a march by Redcoats from Boston to Concord. At the North Bridge in Concord, the People said, "No". A shot was fired and it was heard round the world. After that day the Redcoats were never able to leave Boston by land again. We sent a Declaration to King George fifteen months later, but we became a nation on April 19, 1775.

I have a shirt that is embroidered:

April 19,1775
Thirteen Colonies
One Nation
One People
One Day

You can learn about it in Augusta on April 22 & 23. The event at Columbia, Maine on those days is sold out.

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

Naran
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Joined: 10/06/2004 - 12:01am
Eagleisland wrote: We are,

Eagleisland wrote:
We are, unfortunately, confronted once again with a lesser-of-evils choice. His history suggests that Romney would not be a great president. But we all KNOW that Obama is a disastrous one. Removing him from office as of January of next year should be the top priority.

Worth repeating. And, hey -- Romney could surprise us all, once elected. He could actually do a really good job. I believe he has the ability, and the will to succeed - he just needs good direction, and the right conservative advisers.

The absolute certainty is that compared to President Obama's record, selecting Romney as our next POTUS would be the WAYYYYYYYY "lesser of two evils."

Mike G
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gee wiz, nothing has changed,

gee wiz, nothing has changed, am I now supposed to go down and vote for Romney at the ME convention?

Santorum was just an anyone but Romney vote then and now there are only three left, if anything by Santorum dropping out it has given more of a reason to vote for Paul.

Talking about the November race now is very premature, there is a pile of crap building up in the pipeline, Obama's policies and the FEDs have been to keep the blockage there before November, the pressure is constantly building and it is backing up.

I'll stick with the plan, it is no better, no worse to do so.

Roger Ek
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Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
Ah, the hope and idealism of

Ah, the hope and idealism of the young. I wish I could share your optimism, Naran. My life experience does not allow it. I was in Chile the first time Allende tried to take over. I was in the Dominican Revolution. I have walked the dikes of Cambodia. I remember our own country in 1968. We will live in interesting times once again, but this time it will be right here.

Apollo
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Forget the Maine convention

Forget the Maine convention Mike. Romney has it wrapped up and 2 out of 3 of the Ron Paul delegates probably won't even show up. Sure, the purists will show up but most of the people that were dragged into the caucuses by the Paul camp will quietly disappear now.

Melvin Udall
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Joined: 05/01/2002 - 12:01am
Thank you, Nom de Plume. You

Thank you, Nom de Plume. You took the words right off my keyboard.

In this election, there is one non-negotiable priority/principle:

1) Obama must go, and convincingly.

Principles 2 thru 10 are all see principle one.

Anyone who does not subscribe to this imperative at this point needs to seriously search their souls and minds.

Mike G
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Joined: 02/17/2000 - 1:01am
Naran and others Your opinion

Naran and others

Your opinion of voting for the lesser has been told for decades, there are not two parties, there is a moderate and socialist wing of the same party, just like there is a Gingrich and Romney wing of the republican party.

To continue the farce is the road to ruin as the last decades has shown too clearly. The congress has shown the farce too clearly, nothing can be cut, nothing can be changed other than in bogus ten year plans, to be changed by the next group of lessers. The farce continues on, if not now when?

Roll on Ron Paul and others who understand the subterfuge.

Apollo
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Joined: 08/19/2004 - 12:01am
Still, Romney won the

Still, Romney won the nomination, fair and square. He's the nominee. You're either going to support Romney or help re-elect Obama. Time to make a choice.

Mike G
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Joined: 02/17/2000 - 1:01am
"Forget the Maine convention

"Forget the Maine convention Mike. Romney has it wrapped up and 2 out of 3 of the Ron Paul delegates probably won't even show up. Sure, the purists will show up but most of the people that were dragged into the caucuses by the Paul camp will quietly disappear now."

Apollo

Well I hope that is not so, but your concern, meaning the Republican Party, is now that you have driven Paulers out, is who are we going to vote for? When Obama wins his second term in most parts because he isn't a Republican and spreads the worthless paper around to both corporate and individuals alike, you should ask yourselves who is the real "tard" here?

The nation has changed, it has become a nation of entitlement voters, you in many ways, the Republican Party, booted us out, because you too are entitlement voters.

Now you come to us and say, we are sorry please vote for our candidate. Ha ha

eagleisland
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Joined: 04/30/2005 - 12:01am
Well I hope that is not so,

Well I hope that is not so, but your concern, meaning the Republican Party, is now that you have driven Paulers out, is who are we going to vote for? When Obama wins his second term in most parts because he isn't a Republican and spreads the worthless paper around to both corporate and individuals alike, you should ask yourselves who is the real "tard" here?

Loathe as I am to agree with Apollo (he of the boring headline), let's get real, Mike G.

1) Nobody drove Paulers out. Dr. Paul's candidacy was a quixotic one and only a tiny percentage of the electorate found him to be a credible choice for POTUS. You can hold your breath 'til you turn blue, but that won't change.

2) Obama is beatable. You might not like the guy who's got the shot to do it. But it is not a foregone conclusion. As I said earlier: Ron Paul supporters never amounted to a big enough bloc to give him a legitimate shot. They DO represent a large enough bloc to assist Obama in getting re-elected.

3) "TARD?" I'm not much of one for getting fussed up about political correctness. But that is both offensive and childish. As to the childish part, please refer to 1), holding-breath-until-turn-blue.

Bruce Libby
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Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
eagleisland well said but to

eagleisland well said but to many ,the failure to come up with a complete package alternative ,will be driving their votes not the purpose to remove of the worse president since Carter.

Unfortunately the ability to lead has been set aside by to many as criteria.While there has been many things said and proposed by the various candidates I have not seen the leadership thing in any of them
except Mitt.
Newt had it at one time and lost it , actually threw it away years ago.

Roger Ek
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Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
Apollo telegraphs his hopes

Apollo telegraphs his hopes that conservatives won't show up, that we will go away for a decade and that the moderates will return to their comfort zone as a minority party in Augusta.

Last time we threw out a Democrat lite platform we were satisfied. We were hopeful. We got slaughtered at the following convention because conservatives were not welcome. The dream that we will all stay home is just a dream. Dream on Apollo.

In 2008, Obama got 58% of Maine's vote. If Sarah Palin had not been on the ticket, Obama might have reached 70% in Maine. I see no reason for that number to go down. Nominating progressives won't get the job done. This is not about Romney. It never was. It never will be about Romney. This is about rebuilding a dynamic vital party for Maine's future.

eagleisland
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Apollo telegraphs his hopes

Apollo telegraphs his hopes that conservatives won't show up, that we will go away for a decade and that the moderates will return to their comfort zone as a minority party in Augusta.

(snip)

This is not about Romney. It never was. It never will be about Romney. This is about rebuilding a dynamic vital party for Maine's future.

As to point one: conservatives can disagree, Roger. Some are idealists. Some are pragmatists. The conservative movement needs both. To suggest that those who don't believe that Dr. Paul is a good choice, whatever the reasoning behind that decision, are not conservatives does a disservice to all.

As to point two: you'll get no argument from me. For far too long, the greatest asset of the Maine Democratic Party has been the Maine Republican Party. Currently, it's the Donks who are on the ropes - but Republicans shouldn't assume that current Dem weakness is a sign of Republican strength. It is not. Meantime, no faction of the Maine GOP can afford a my-way-or-the-highway approach. The goal is bigger than that.

Mike G
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Well you forget to mention

Well you forget to mention that both the R and D party and many of the Independent voters are entitlement voters. America has become an entitlement nation. That being so much fact relates to exactly why Ron Paul can get at most 20% from the Republican Party, he might be able to get 20% from the D party also, the matter is what he can get from independents?

I'd suspect the amount he can get from independents is much greater than 20, but who knows, we are stuck in this paradigm that only a two party candidate can win, and it to this point in time is true.

Mike G
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The fact the Obama is the

The fact the Obama is the worse president in history has as much to do because America has become the greatest entitlement country in history. We are what we have become and the "idiot" in the whitehouse is just reflecting the idiocy of the populace.

eagleisland
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I'd suspect the amount he can

I'd suspect the amount he can get from independents is much greater than 20, but who knows, we are stuck in this paradigm that only a two party candidate can win, and it to this point in time is true.

Exactly. So are you going to take your shifts at bailing the boat and handling the oars, or are you simply going to complain about how unfair it all is while the rest of us try to get this leaky bucket to shore?

Roger Ek
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Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
eagleisland says: "Meantime,

eagleisland says:
"Meantime, no faction of the Maine GOP can afford a my-way-or-the-highway approach. The goal is bigger than that."

We have a lot of deserving candidates for the Maine legislature. Get out and support them. If you don't have one in your district, support the one next door in the next district. Stay engaged. If you let them drive you away as they hope, they win. When voting for state committee members at the county caucuses in Augusta, support the long term activists who have worked for deserving candidates for decades.

eagleisland
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Joined: 04/30/2005 - 12:01am
Well said, Roger.

Well said, Roger.

Mike G
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well said Roger also We

well said Roger also

We should not forget that state sovereignty has more to do with the fight than the sewer that is Federalism

johnw
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Joined: 03/11/2009 - 10:06am
Romney gets the nod and I'll

Romney gets the nod and I'll support him and encourage others to do so.
We can all sit here at our keyboards and pound out the what ifs and who coulds but the simple fact is that MItt HAS.
What will be telling is now that the nomination is his will he pull off the gloves and start wailing on obama and his pathetic record? I'd like a no holds barred campaign. Let's hope that Mitt has the stomach to drag out every piece of crap obama has pulled and pound him over the head with it everyday between now and election day
Maybe just maybe Mitt will be the guy that appeals to the "Reagan democrats " and conservative democrats " and can bring together and move forward a congress that is so ideologically deadlocked that nothing happens.

Watching the current government is like two guys in a sinking canoe one keeps talking about bailing and the other is in the back drilling holes......

Mike G
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Joined: 02/17/2000 - 1:01am
Johnw Well when Romney starts

Johnw

Well when Romney starts talking about the FED and how that has much to do about our present economic disaster I'll start listening to him, when Romney starts talking about the Libya incursion, I'll start listening to him, when Romney starts talking about the NDAA act and the unconstitutional grab of power that that gave, I'll start listening to him, the fact that he might be a better flavor of tyrant means little to me or others that are concerned about the power grab by the executive branch.

When Romney starts talking about how the economic sanctions against Iran have in no small way are a result of the high costs of fuel. I'll start listening to him. As someone said I wouldn't hold my breath, I'm with Roger though at least we can get together and fight this behemoth from a state issue and that appears where it should be fought. But considering that tyrant Lincoln, I won't be holding for too long.

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