Darwin to receive apology from Church of England

1Maine,

You said the word does not signify a flat surface and asked someone to show you someting that says different. I did. Now you've retorted with a source that defines a circle as an orb or sphere. That doesn't change the fact that circle, as a noun, does in fact signify a flat surface. Your own source provides 17 definitions for circle as a noun. The one you rely on is number 16 of 17. The very first definition provided by your source is "a closed plane curve . . ." Granted, at the very least, circle can mean "a flat plane" in some contexts and it can mean "a sphere or orb" in others. That doesn't answer which meaning was intended in Isaiah 40:22.

Fair enough...my intent was to imply that nothing I have heard or read has restricted a circle to being only a flat surface. Obviuosly, a circle can be a flat surface in addition to being three dimensional (or more mathematically).

A point, for that matter, can be defined as a circle with a radius equaling zero.

Which proves only that there's no container so small that the whole universe can't be shoved into it, if preconception requires.

VK wrote:
"That doesn't answer which meaning was intended in Isaiah 40:22."

Well, now you have at the ready a source to investigate (see my previous post) for the meaning of "circle" intended in Isaiah 40:22 - or any other word in the Bible :)
Scroll down at this link which will show the following verses which also use "Strong's H2329' having the same meaning as the word "circle" in Isaiah 40:22:
Job 22:14
Thick clouds 05645 [are] a covering 05643 to him, that he seeth 07200 not; and he walketh 01980 in the circuit 02329 of heaven 08064.
Proverbs 8:27
When he prepared 03559 the heavens 08064, I [was] there: when he set 02710 a compass 02329 upon the face 06440 of the depth 08415
Check out Gensenius's Lexicon located on the same page for additional definition as used in the Scriptures.

Arguing about the attributes of a circle reminds me of "That depends on the meaning of is"

I am not sure the point you were sharing with us (no pun intended) 3 if by wire,
but the UM astronomy prof basically told us that 12.6 billion years ago that is precisely what the universe was, a point of matter, then BOOM. He said that they could trace it back to the origin but didn't have a guess what it was one nano second prior.

Of course I told him the Biblical theory. There was nothing. Then God said, Universe, BE! and it was.

From the KJV

Psalms 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, [so] great is his mercy toward
them that fear him.

Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, [so] far hath he removed our
transgressions from us.

Strange then that the words chosen here were "as far as the east is from the west" - for you can reach the apex of north and south, where there is only one direction you can go...if you are at the northernmost place, all directions, no matter which way you turn, are south, and at the extreme southern point you can only go north - perhaps referring to the ends of the earth?

But you can never reach the easternmost or westernmost place, you can always go either way - a globe - as long as you are not precisely at the previously mentioned point - where there is no east or west....

Our hearts will go to great lengths to not believe, won't they? :D

After we're done with beating the definition of circle to death, what are we going to do about the other verses?

Some do travel a lot, but don't fear, new ones are on order...and once those are in place they'll be opened up and we'll find we've been there all along...

Will the circle be unbroken?

Probably a new thread?

God blesses ya Knuck.

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Is the Church of England the same as Anglican? (Sorry, my knowledge of British churches is limited.)

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From the C of E website:
What it means to be Anglican

So, back to the apologies...anyone else ready to throw on the sack cloth and ashes for Charlie's sake?

Speaking of the meaning of words, now the CofE is saying "Brown's statement reflected its position on Darwin but did not constitute an official apology." (as of Sept. 15th, 2008)

Perhaps they wanted to keep in alignment with the Vatican's "no apology for you" statement.

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"You are pouring unnecessary sand down an unnecessary hole."

Well, since you recognize the problem then shut your mouth.
That will eliminate one of your aforementioned "unnecessaries".

Wait, did you just make that up?

If we're gonna start talking geometry, then I'm jumping in. I was content just reading this thread and munching on pork rinds until now...

Mathematically, a circle and sphere are well defined (and quite different). One is 2 dimensional (ie sits in a plane) and one is 3 dimensional. A point has NO dimension, only position.

C'mon, we can't just make stuff up--- Obama said so.

So if Obama is making a point, he takes a position on something without having any dimension to it?

Opps wrong thread, sorry....there, that's an apology :lol:

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Absolutely a radius can have zero length, but it's not a circle.

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At the risk of completely derailing the thread, please explain to me: 1) How you derive a Tangent line to a circle with zero radius, and 2) how to calculate the slope of that line in n-dimensional geometry (which, btw, is not lost on me).

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Here's a link to the full, unofficial apology issued by Rev Dr Malcolm Brown, Director of Mission and Public Affairs, CofE
Good religion needs good science

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What's more curious to me is why the CofE finds it necessary to issue an apology - now officially unofficial - to a deceased man.
Wasn't putting his face on the 10(pound) note enough?
Speaking of money...there's still time to donate to 'the fund'.

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Nice editing of your original post, pmh. Like the bold touch. As far as you noticing or not that which I post, it's always a choice you make.

Now, since you are absolutely certain that the Bank of 'England £10 Note, Series E revision' has "gone the way of...", please send me any said notes that you might have in your possession, or ones you run across that you claim are no longer in use, having been replaced by the Euro.

I'll be sure to dispose of them properly...

Now, how are those answers coming to the questions asked of you by Punk Freud?

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PMH, I appreciate your intellectual input.
I dare say that it is a shame that you couldn't have debated the original apostles as they were closer to your peer level.
John was a visiting professor at Pathmos while Paul taught at UR, University of Rome. Thomas was Delhi U. and John the Baptist obviously held his doctorate from an unnamed Baptist University.

I said that tongue in cheek to illustrate that God doesn't seem to operate in the physics and math that we currently
understand. God put on a tent of human flesh and walked among us for a period of around 33 years and I have no record of Him teaching the natural sciences that would have interested you. Quite curiously, when Jesus healed some people He
addressed their illness as having a spiritual rather than physical cause. He asked; what is easier to say, your sins are forgiven or rise up and walk? Another He told them that their faith had restored them physically. These small glimpses that we have of how a God operates doesn't show up in the normal physics textbook. When addressing Job about the "sons of Arcturus", or the "sweet influences of the Pleiades's", God doesn't qualify His references, just asks why Job can't explain them. God has not offered the mechanics of how He works to us poor servants so we may well appear foolish but the universe all around us testifies of His handiwork.
You mentioned the giants. Those may or may not include regular animals, probably do to some extent, but the giants referred to in the Book of Genesis were men of renown, offspring of human women and rebellious angelic beings who left their first estate.
If you are interested at a better, yet not university tested, look at this issue, there has been some information gathering attempts done.
University degrees are nifty to have but reality is that we age and die. We need to study the grave as that is where we are going to spend a significant amount of time. Jesus walked out of His. He promised to lead the rest of us out of ours if we follow Him having used His formulas while we were still alive.
Really, I don't need to know about universes or dinosaurs, I just like that stuff because God made them.

By the way.
The King James may have small issues here and there, and argument between Catholic and Protestant as to a hand full of books that should be included or not, but our God is big enough to overcome small matters as those.
I am a fool for God, no problem. I trust that the Book that seems to have been preserved and promoted for 400 years over other similar texts may be all that an English speaking gentile needs to get by. That Book is just a book without interaction between the Author and the reader anyway.
What about Gog and the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal?

"This thread began with a calculated and mean-tempered swipe at the Anglican Church on no more basis than the swiper's feelings and apparent wish to stir things up."

Wow. Now the guy can determine motives!
I'm sorry to inform you, you are wrong.

The 'big bang' that started this thread was my general, long-standing interest in 'churches' and their genuflection over the centuries to the desires of man at the expense of God. Again, my curiousity remains as previously stated.

Despite this forum's allowance for the author to set parameters for thread discussion, I thought I'd let this one go without the usual ones put in place, such as those found on the Extreme Religious Left thread.

I knew this would offer you to take care of the jones you have for commenting on everthing I say in your usual manner.

Once again, you do not disappoint. I'm glad to be part of your mental health care plan.

edited to add:
What are your thoughts on such apologies issued by churches?