Did John Frary Just Say What I Thought He Said?
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I was reponding to Robert's suggestion that legalization would not lead to greater use.
Madison Avenue gets people to pay for bottled water. They will sell lots of pot to people who haven't smoked since college.
So, what is the big deal? Have you ever smoked pot Dan?
Dan, would you be against even exploring legalization on a state by state basis?
The big deal is that our society is already awash in substance abuse. We do not need to encourage more.
Dan, what is your definition of abuse? How does one abuse pot?
People smoke a little, get a buzz, relax. You don't get more buzzed by smoking more. You cannot od on pot.
As long as it's not illegal and stops before it hits my nose, what you do is your bidniz.
I think we are saying the same thing here. By support I do not mean condone the action only that you need to support the right to do so as long as it does not infringe on yours or someone else's life, liberty or property. It should be none of our business and the cursive power of government should not be used to stop it.
Myth: Marijuana Policy in the Netherlands is a Failure. Dutch law, which allows marijuana to be bought, sold, and used openly, has resulted in increasing rates of marijuana use, particularly in youth.
Fact: The Netherlands' drug policy is the most nonpunitive in Europe. For more than twenty years, Dutch citizens over age eighteen have been permitted to buy and use cannabis (marijuana and hashish) in government-regulated coffee shops. This policy has not resulted in dramatically escalating cannabis use.
The U.S. is not the Netherlands.
Europeans also have much less problems with alcohol abuse.
I think Dan is a fascinating character, but it was the lottery hit ("I also oppose the lottery.") that filled in the last piece of the puzzle: Dan is an apostle of John Calvin! Rigorous self control, social order imposed on the weak by their betters, the blessed revealed by their success in this world, etc. Predestination, anyone?
I always thought Calvin was the high water mark of European intellect, and his Geneva Bible was probably the genesis of self rule in the American colonies, but I wouldn't want to live in his household. Still, beats a secular humanist every time, especially as Treasury Secretary. I'll nominate Dan.
Dan, please consider limiting the corporate marketing of soft drugs as they did in Alaska, and most of the problems you are illustrating will be held in check. Rational minds can come up with a better solution than The War on Drugs. If William F Buckley, Milton Friedman and Henry Hyde all carefully sifted through this and came to the same conclusion - The War on Drugs is a bad thing - we should be listening to them.
And Robert, thanks for the link. I had forgotten all of the fantastical lies that were told about marijuana. Hard to imagine how much damage to our youth's respect for authority was done, once they figured out they were being systematically lied to. And on behalf of corporate beer manufacturers, no less.
Yeah, marijuana causes no harm - it's just like taking vitamins.
Heavy marijuana use impairs a person's ability to form memories, recall events (see Marijuana, Memory, and the Hippocampus), and shift attention from one thing to another.8,33 THC also disrupts coordination and balance by binding to receptors in the cerebellum and basal ganglia, parts of the brain that regulate balance, posture, coordination of movement, and reaction time.11 Through its effects on the brain and body, marijuana intoxication can cause accidents. Studies show that approximately 6 to 11 percent of fatal accident victims test positive for THC. In many of these cases, alcohol is detected as well.
Great stuff. We should hand it out to all the high school kids.
Tom C, my link to myths and facts list many, many, independent sources and studies, and you counter that with a government site. :(
No, we shouldn't hand it out to high school kids. Messes with their short term memory, and they are supposed to be using their brain to stretch their memory.
I did think it was kinda interesting that only 6 to 11 % of accidental death victims had THC in their system. Last numbers I saw, the general populace has a greater incidence of use than that, and it stays in your system for months. Does this mean marijuana users are 50% less likely to die in accidents?
I found this statement clearly misleading: "and in many instances, alcohol was detected too" - alcohol stays in your system 24 hours. Hmmm.
More seriously, if you build a criminal underground by making this stuff super profitable, there is no way to trace who gave it to the kids. When kids die in alcohol related accidents (I think it is something over 6,000 a year), we can almost always trace it back to who bought for them.
Alcohol is the most destructive drug infesting our culture. Seen any helicopters overhead lately looking for hops?
Very few people can comprehend what he is actually saying. Now that might be funny and entertaining to those of us that "get it", but unless you can get down to the core voters and relate to them on their level...what's the point other than to only be in it for pure self gratification. :shock: Get it?
Sounds to me like you're suggesting someone who is not a "dope" decides that winning is more important than what one stands for.
You strike at the very core of what "representative government" means.
It also sounds like you have a pretty low opinion of "core voters." I'd love to hear some of the comments made behind closed doors in your town hall about your residents, and how you are "public servants."
Tom C, my link to myths and facts list many, many, independent sources and studies, and you counter that with a government site. :(
Yeah, OK Robert, if you say so. Pot is harmless. Heck, it's even good for you. Makes you smarter, too.
:roll:
Actually To, it is cigarettes that make you smarter. Lighting up raises your IQ 8 points, goes right back down when the nicotine wears off. That is why a lot of driven people (LBJ, Hemingway) used to chain smoke. It wasn't to soothe their nerves, it was to give them that little edge. Has a big (positive) impact on schizonphrenia , and cuts alzheimers 70%.
But it also kills your lungs. Who should be making this decision? YOU. Thank you for smoking, indeed.
is a gift from God. It's good.
Legalize it, regulate it and tax it.
Just say no to corporate lobbyists and Calvanists. :)
Mel, here's the part you're missing. Drugs are expensive because they're illegal. How many crimes must an addict commit to support a $200 per day habit? How many crimes must he commit to support a $5-$10 per day habit? The other thing is the tremendous profit potential that would disappear with decriminalization. People are more apt to commit murders to protect a millionaire lifestyle than an average wage lifestyle.
I agree with Mike. When I hear that the authorities have intercepted another shipment or pulled up another pot garden, I wince because it cuts down on the supply, which automatically increases the costs for addicts, which in turn increases the need for burglaries, armed robberies, fraud, petty thefts, etc. all because of of the actions of the governemnt and a principle of economics, where the demand is greater than the supply, the price goes up. Interdicting supply causes shortages. The government can, in one fell swoop, cut the legs from beneath drug crime by legalising all drugs. Think of all the murders and mayhem it would end. Without legalization we cannot get a handle on the problem. So far the government has failed miserably in its war on drugs--failed, failed, failed. The government has taken on the responsibility of keeping us free of illegal drugs and failed in that responsibility, and spent massive amounts of our treasure. It is actually , at base, the responsibility of each individual to be responsible for him or herself. Legalize it all. Tell everyone, if you get in trouble through your own actions that it is your own tough luck. There were good reasons for ending the pohibition of alcohol. There are equally good reason to eliminate the prohibition on all other drugs. The user is ultimately responsible for the results of drug use. The stupitidy and ineffectiveness of the government , state and federal, is staggering.
John Frary has my vote.
I agree with your assessment of the war on drugs completely attic owl. And I like Frary's style. Don't agree with all he proposes, but at least you know his position. Calls a spade a spade, no equivocation. Very strange in a person running for office, now isn't it.
charlie
Yes, Charlie, it is indeed!
Yeah, marijuana causes no harm - it's just like taking vitamins.
Heavy marijuana use impairs a person's ability to form memories, recall events (see Marijuana, Memory, and the Hippocampus), and shift attention from one thing to another.8,33 THC also disrupts coordination and balance by binding to receptors in the cerebellum and basal ganglia, parts of the brain that regulate balance, posture, coordination of movement, and reaction time.11 Through its effects on the brain and body, marijuana intoxication can cause accidents. Studies show that approximately 6 to 11 percent of fatal accident victims test positive for THC. In many of these cases, alcohol is detected as well.
Great stuff. We should hand it out to all the high school kids.
? doesn't THC stay in you system for a month? So if you smoke a joint and get into an accident two weeks later do you honestly believe that the accident was caused by smoking the joint?
Thrasybulus:
We do try to keep it out because of some behaviors it creates.
The supply of it is always low price high and debts incurred by those buying it
lead to assaults as well the few people who just get stupider on it!
However, MDOC found a way of controlling it buy creating a new market for
contraband.Since the late 90's we banned SMOKING :!: :!:
Price of a Marijuana joint in prison $3, price of a name brand cigarette $10 :!: :!:
For the first time in history prisons outlawed something that did not originate
from inmate behaviors!
I believe one should look at the statue that made less than a oz. lower sanctioned violation
and ask has it slowed use?
All I can offer is this in 38 years of contact with criminal users and watching
the addiction lead users to the next drug etc. I have seen very few that didn't
start with Marijuana use.
Please I realize there is a whole load of arguments that can be used to refute this
but this is what I have seen and see on a daily basis! Legalization is not the answer.
Yes , we could tax it but then it would be available tax free! Is that any different than a trip
(bad pun) to NH because of what?
As to prices legal and illegal, I was more specifically referring to oxycontin and the other opiates, not weed.
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People buy dirt aswell...So what's your point???? :lol: