Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

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Editor
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Joined: 04/18/2009 - 3:43pm
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

[i]Editor's Note: In a 10/4/06 AMG Taxpayer Bill of Rights thread, Dana Lee - former spokesman with the Maine Municipal Association - wrote a nasty email to George Fogg in which he wrote, "I'm out of public service to this town in exactly 18 days. I've taken the "˜public's' crap for 18 years."

Well! I don't know if Mr. Lee later missed the "public's crap," but, based on his letter to the KJ he seems okay with shilling for the public's money.[/i]

[url=http://www.asmainegoes.com/node/10418]October 2004 Dana Lee Thread[/url]

---"”

Letters to the Editor
Support Question 2, and Maine's environment
June 8, 2007

On June 12, Maine voters will be asked whether they support Question 2, an $18.3 million environmental bond package. The state bond funds are required in order to take advantage of federal matching funds. If Question 2 passes, the state will leverage $49.5 million in other funds.

We urge you to vote "Yes" on Question 2 to continue to improve Maine's water.

Dana K. Lee
Legislative Advocate
Maine Waste Water Control Association

[url=http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/view/letters/3948732.html]source[/...

1Maine1lostcause
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Joined: 12/06/2004 - 1:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

I’m out of public service to this town in exactly 18 days. [b]I’ve taken the ‘public’s’ crap for 18 years.” [/b]

Legislative Advocate
[b]Maine Waste Water Control Association [/b]

Irony reigns!!!

Gaffer
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Joined: 12/11/1999 - 1:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

It appears that he was not able to flush the desire for public money from his system. For a guy who could not handle the crap from the public it appears that he did quite well for himself. Advocate for his own pocket and still at the public trough I see. I wonder if his skin is still as thin now as it was back when Mr. Fogg pricked his balloon?
It has been my observation that his kind never makes it in the private sector because the BS he thrives on and uses everyday is only available in the public sector. His kind would not make it in the real world.

Editor
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Advertiser Democrat
6/21/07

Dana Lee hired as new Poland town manager

by G.E. Twine

"I did not realize how many rewards there were in doing public service," he concluded. "When you've been immersed in it for 16 years you forget the rewards. After a year I missed them and a lot of what I was doing wasn't as rewarding and fulfilling as being a town manager.”

http://www.advertiserdemocrat.com/frontstory2.shtml

Naran
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Joined: 10/06/2004 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Scott - I remember that thread with the quotes from Mr. Lee, very well indeed. Good for you, making the connection.

I guess Mr. Lee missed the power game and the town politics/money game, huh?

Gaffer - right on. He lasted not so long in the private sector.

Dan Billings
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Joined: 10/02/2005 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

He couldn't cut it in the private sector.

Having your pay dependent on actually producing and being accountable is tough.

But Dana will do fine in Poland. His predecessor set low standards. If Dana can just keep track of all the money he spends, he will be looked at as a God in Poland.

Naran
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Joined: 10/06/2004 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

[i]*coffee out the nose....*[/i]

Dan, you are awful.
I love it.
:lol:

Gaffer
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Joined: 12/11/1999 - 1:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Here is a pice from the Advertizer Democrat that will indicate just how much Dana Lee missed being at the public trough. [url=http://www.advertiserdemocrat.com/frontstory2.shtml] Source[/url]

Gaffer
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Joined: 12/11/1999 - 1:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

To quote from Mr. Lee
[quote]I did not realize how many rewards there were in doing public service," [/quote]

I'll bet he does, especially at $68,500. If that is the money plus benefits he is being rewarded more than most Mainers.

Naran
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Joined: 10/06/2004 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Gaffer - you know that's the money without benefits. Government never states the full freight upfront; it's against MMA rules.
:roll:

MaryAdams
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Joined: 02/13/2002 - 1:01am
Wonder if MMA recommended him?

What on earth possessed those 5 selectmen to hire this man? His rude, arrogant attitude toward the public, displayed in the email to George Fogg, just 12 months ago showed him to be fed up with public service. He hated the TaxpaYer Bill of Rights and before that was the Maine Municipal Association hit man sent to destroy the property tax relief referendum (Palesky proposal).

By his words and deeds, he does not espouse spending reduction and tax relief. In fact, if you can't stand the taxes, he'll help you pack according to his email to Mr. Fogg!

He surely doesn't reflect the vote of the people of Poland on the Taxpayer Bill of Rights (YES 1,348, NO 962), nor any of the towns in Androscoggin County (with the exception of Lewiston) which all voted YES on TABOR!

I can only speculate that the Maine Municipal Association, lead opponent of the Taxpayer Bill of Rights, must have been asked by the Poland selectmen to be in on the selection process because this man would have only looked good to people of like mind. If he received MMA recommendation, could this have been a $68,500 + reward for being a good soldier in previous campaigns?

What will happen to Poland now in his hands? By their votes on Question 1 (spending limitation which required voter participation to exceed inflation), we know that they wanted to be put in charge of spending, yet now they've got spending control's #1 opponent running the town. I ask again, how in the world could the selectmen of this town do this to its people? They must have influenced by someone or something and my guess is MMA to which they pay their dues. They could not have known about Mr. Lee's email of June 12, 2006 to George Fogg which exposed his attitude toward the people he worked for in Mechanic Falls.

Naran
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Joined: 10/06/2004 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Mary - excellent points, and thank you for making them. Nice to hear from you on the forum.
8)

If any Poland residents are reading this thread, you'd be well advised to keep this information handy, and keep one watchful eye on Mr. Lee, and a hand on your wallet.

Melvin Udall
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Joined: 05/01/2002 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

I especially believe the selectman and people of Poland should see the letter he wrote to George Fogg.

Perhaps someone could dig it up and post it here.

As a matter of fact, if you do, and no one from Poland posts, I'll be happy to see the selectmen get a copy.

Editor
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Joined: 04/18/2009 - 3:43pm
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Mel -

The letter is here. It's linked in my post at the start of this thread. (Sigh!)

skf

Melvin Udall
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Joined: 05/01/2002 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Poland obviously has a pretty effective town government. The "agenda for the next selectmen's meeting" is dated in April of this year. Meeting minutes are posted for meetings all the way up to February of this year.

Lee will have his hands full at $65K plus getting an agenda and minutes posted on the web page.

Oops....sorry! That comment probably amounts to "more crap from the public."

MaryAdams
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Joined: 02/13/2002 - 1:01am
George did it

Mel, Years ago there was a popular radio detective series called "Let George do it".

Well, George has already done what you just suggested. Here it is:

Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:16:15 -0400
From: "GEORGE FOGG"
Subject: Your new Town Manager

Dear Poland Board of Selectmen:

As a strong supporter of TABOR last fall I think that you might be interested in an exchange I had approximately a year ago with Dana Lee regarding a letter to the editor that he had published in the LSJ. I wrote him and rebutted his letter and that led to a rather snotty exchange. In my humble opinion I do not think that a public servant should treat Maine citizens with so little respect and regard. I know that every municipality in Androscoggin county voted in favor of TABOR except LA, so suspect that the citizens of Poland would be interested in knowing the tax attitude of their new town manager.

Remember all this exchange came about because Mr. Lee chose to write a LTTE. In my opinion and from experience I know that such letters are fair game and one needs to be prepared to take the slings and arrows that come from writing publicly. I had sent these exchanges to Mary Adams who had headed up the TABOR battle statewide and they were also posted on the web forum "As Maine Goes," where Mr. Lee was soundly chastised for his arrogant and condescending attitude.

I strongly believe that Mr. Lee is not what a town manager should be and I am afraid that Poland will be the poorer for hiring him. It is for that reason that I forward these exchanges. Below is the exchange beginning with my rebuttal of the LSJ LTTE:

****************************
Mr. Lee:

Read your letter to the editor in the LSJ yesterday. Below is the letter and my rebuttals in red. I know you are a MMA front man but I do expect that you would have your facts correct. I do expect a reply.

George A. Fogg- North Yarmouth Taxpayers Assoc.

TABOR is a failed solution

Let's not repeat Colorado's mistake. Even though our state Legislature and governor are paralyzed when it comes to tax reform, the Taxpayer Bill of Rights is not the answer. Wrong- Maine's taxpayer Bill of Rights was crafted to avoid the mistakes in the Colorado TABOR. Right - the Maine Governor and Legislature are paralyzed so it is time for the people to act.

According to the Maine Center for Economic Policy, TABOR has rendered Colorado's funding effort of K-12 education system 49th nationally. Colorado is near the bottom of all states in terms of average elementary school class size. They are negotiating the sale of state parks in order to generate revenue and the program that vaccinates school children has been suspended. Another lie that is much touted. Colorado K-12 education funding was released from TABOR in 2000 by Amendment 23. Last years Amendment C suspended TABOR for roads, higher education and healthcare for 5 years. It also kept all the excess billions that were to be returned to the taxpayers. In a March 2006 study published by the Independence Institute, Education Analyst Benjamin DeGrow reproduces official data from the National Center for Education Statistics, a division of the U.S. Department of Education. Compared to the other 50 states and the District of Columbia, Colorado was ranked 26th out of 51 with "total expenditures" of $8,917 per pupil in 2002-2003, the most recent year for which NCES provides this data. By another measure, "current expenditures" (excluding debt financing and capital construction costs) per pupil, Colorado is ranked 31st by the NCES, 30th by the U.S. Census Bureau, and - even higher - 25th by the National Education Association, the nation's largest teachers union. So what's the source of the bumper sticker myth about Colorado being 49th in school spending? Originally, it came from the January 1999 "Quality Counts" survey in Education Week, a Washington, D.C.-based trade publication targeted at unionized teachers and school administrators. Education Week manipulates the data to re-rank the states on what it calls "adequacy of resources," including a comparison of what percentage of its income (gross state product) each state spends on public education. As a relatively prosperous state, Colorado gets a low ranking.

If TABOR had been in effect in Maine for the past 10 years, we would face a total of $470 million in cuts to state services. That amount is equal to the state's general fund portion of all of higher education, conservation, judicial, public safety, child welfare, mental health, environmental and veterans' budgets combined. Prove it! To me it says that we are being ripped off by government. The much touted LD-1 was supposed to give us tax relief but most school districts did not return the saving meant to be tax relief. Just proves how greedy and corrupt government really is.

Colorado citizens have had enough and just suspended TABOR for five years to try and rebuild their education systems and infrastructure. The sponsors of this bill have made Maine's version even more restrictive than Colorado's version. As stated above Colorado had taken K-12 off of TABOR in 2000. Maine's Taxpayer Bill of Rights, contrary to the MMA spin, will not make education more restrictive than what the Colorado TABOR was before Amendment 23. If a school system is increasing spending they will be limited to the CPI and student population but if the population is down to the point of wiping out the CPI the Maine Taxpayers Bill of Rights will allow flat funding. If student population is down the expenses ought to be cut. Most schools are greedy to the extreme.

Vote No on TABOR in November, and only vote for legislative and gubernatorial candidates who really want true tax reform. Continuing to shift the chairs on the Titanic has brought Maine the Palesky initiative and now a failed TABOR solution. Can't resist bringing Palesky into the fray can you? The Maine Taxpayers Bill of Rights is not a Palesky bill or even similar. Palesky was a cap at 1%.

I have done considerable research into the Colorado TABOR and those of your ilk who write the lies about the Taxpayer Bill of Rights have either failed to do their own research or are spouting the untruths to further the defrauding of Maine taxpayers. If you are a man, then I expect a reply with facts backing up your assertions.

Dana Lee, Mechanic Falls

Dan Lee's reply:
Hey sport. I'm no one's front man.

And don't call me a liar. I wrote that editorial on my own account. Never checked with MMA nor wanted their help on my writing.

If you wanna rebut me, then go ahead. It's your write, well, subject to a 2/3rds vote under TABOR, I expect.

You're comments in red are dead wrong. You've been brainwashed to believe this crap is real. Your bill is far worse than Colorado's screw up.

Yes, Augusta's paralyzed, but by what training do you or your group of zealots write legislation. I have an M.A. in Public Policy and Management. You? What's your analytical background. Well?

I love your analysis under the second paragraph. Brilliant. Let's see. TABOR sucked so badly that K-12 education funding was suspended from its idiotic requirements in 2000. And last year, TABOR sucked so badly that its requirements were suspended from roads, higher ed and health care. Ok. I give. What's left to suspend from its requirements? Conservation can be wiped out, maybe the judiciary? What else should we wipe out?

Oh, and then by 2003, Colorado was BACK to 26th (after having shot TABOR down 2-3 years earlier?) Sweet. Once the calmer version of that legislation was trashed, they rebuilt their education system from almost last back to middling. Awesome. They must be very proud.

Yes, as a relatively prosperous state they get a low ranking. Read my words exactly. It's called "effort" and that is exactly what it means. And Colorado is prohibited from using their wealth to raise bright children. Let's do that in Maine too! Wheee. Genius.

Paragraph 3. "Prove it!" There was an analysis done that showed exactly what I said in my letter. I noted my sources. Where's your analysis, sport? Just proves how numb people like you are.

Paragraph 4: Ok, well then, let Maine take K-12 education and roads and higher education and healthcare out of this TABOR.... I'm waiting..... Since this is a proven failure. PROVEN!!!

I suspect you have no kids in school, do you? I do. Two boys and I don't want them to grow up as stupid as.... some.

Don't write me anymore. I don't like you or your snotty tone.

I'm out of public service to this town in exactly 18 days. I very much want to fight back. I've taken the "public's" crap for 18 years.

You wouldn't like me as a private citizen.

When I was MMA's spokesperson, I had trouble being as politically correct as they wanted me. Not an issue anymore, sport.

Back off. TABOR is screwed up in the extreme. You want tax relief. Leave Maine. I'll help you pack.

Dana Lee

My reply to the above:
From: GEORGE FOGG
To: Dana Lee
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: LSJ Letter to the Editor

Mr. Lee:

Whoa, guess you can't take criticism. My take is, if you write letters to the editor you must deal with those who have the energy to look you up and reply. That is one of the downsides of doing LTTE's. I have written a few and paid the price as well. I was a manager for AT&T in its heyday and learned how to deal with people much more nasty than what you see in Maine. Anyone can be a flunky in government.

I notice you conveniently neglected to give the source of the $470 million cuts, but my guess is it was the MMA( More Money Always).I also noticed that you think that Colorado went from 49th to 25th. Not so! The 49th figure is bogus as is what the NEA puts forth. One of the largest expenses in government is education so it ought to stay in the taxpayer Bill of Rights. How can one with a Masters not see that if government continually grows at a faster rate that the ability of people to pay then at some point the whole thing collapses. When more people are in the wagon than pulling it, the wagon stops.

I too raised two boys and paid my fair share, but when my property tax is now 20% of my social security checks that doesn't give one much left for heating and other essentials. Seniors are being unfairly treated by Maine's high taxes and if the Governor and the legislature won't correct it, we will. No matter if it isn't perfect, they had their chance and what they have done so far is far from perfect.

I don't see the Colorado 5 year hiatus on parts of TABOR as a failureof it. It only proves that the opponents of TABOR did a better selling job at the vote. Don't tell me that there is no fat in government, there are way to many at the trough. Cut them off!

I also think that as a public employee one has to take the rants of the citizens in stride. To do otherwise is very unprofessional, but maybe that wasn't part of the M.A. in Public Policy and Management courses you took.

Have a good day,
George A. Fogg

And the final exchange from Mr. Lee:
I did not write the editorial as a government employee. I wrote it as a citizen concerned about whacky quick-fix gimmicks like Palesky and TABOR. And therefore, when I get a snotty letter, I will be snotty right back.

Good luck with your campaign. I will be working vigorously (privately) to defeat it. Even the AARP opposes it.

The information I got, just as my LTE said, is from the Maine Center for Economic Policy.

Why would the NEA put out bogus facts in ranking the states effort toward K-12 education. You don't think Colorado might have called them on the ranking? Please. You have no facts. Myths only.

Seniors are being treated unfairly? Oh, and the young homeowners and middle aged homeowners are being treated fairly? Look, the burden on property taxes is now 43-44% of all taxes, while sales tax is at 23%. That's the problem. We need tax REFORM, not some proven-failure of a formulaic system.

I guessed right. Retired, no kids in school, no background in public policy. Just worried about old number 1.

LOL. You wouldn't last ten minutes in public service.

Have a splendid day yourself.

Dana Lee
***********************

Well you can see for yourselves what you have possible bought into. We recently hired a new AA in North Yarmouth and you can bet I would have had some reservations had Dana Lee been the candidate. My belief is that when one is a public servant it can not be turned on and off at your own choice. Mr. Lee's argument that he wrote the LTTE as a private citizen is bogus. His conflict of interest was obvious and he was an outspoken spokes person for MMA many times in the LSJ and I am convinced that the MMA is the enemy of every taxpayer in Maine.

Thank you for listening and I welcome your replies.

Sincerely,
George A. Fogg, NY Taxpayers Assoc.

Melvin Udall
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

The words "public servant" need to be deleted from the lexicon.

Not many "servants" get better pay and benefits than those they serve, nor guaranteed employment, nor zero accountability, nor elitist stature, nor the label "honorable."

Thanks for the quick work, George. I had your 6 if you hadn't been such an efficient "private servant."

Editor
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

LSJ.com
Poland hires new leader

By Scott Taylor , Staff Writer
Saturday, June 23, 2007

[img]http://www.sunjournal.com/photos/2007/06/23/217955-33079s.jpg[/img]
[i]Dana Lee, LSJ.com[/i]

He left Mechanic Falls on June 30, 2006, and kept busy as a lobbyist for the Maine Fire Chiefs Association and the Maine Wastewater Control Association, and as a real estate agent and consultant. But those jobs weren't fulfilling, he said.

[url=http://www.sunjournal.com/story/217955-3/LewistonAuburn/Poland_hires_new...

mediadog
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

IMO Poland has just bought itself a pile of trouble. Wait until this guy's temper is directed at a local citizen. It may not happen soon, but it will happen in time. Although the anger evident in the replies to George Fogg can be surpressed for a while it can't be hidden forever.

Town Manager
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

With all due respect to Mr. Fogg, those were intense days. Dana had gone through an incredible run as MMA President and Tri-Captain of the Coalition to defeat Palesky. He was not "the frontman" for MMA as some have put it during the TABOR debate. Dana was speaking for himself, not representing anyone or any group when he responded to George. I truly believe his words were that of a man who was very tired and needed a break. He took that break, recharged his batteries and is back in action. Don't judge a person based on ONE e-mail exchange. Look at his record. I know Dana personally, he is a great public servant and he will serve the citizens of Poland well.

Melvin Udall
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Yup....don't judge an F-14 pilot by the one time he put it in the drink. If you've had 200 or so successful launches and traps, putting one in the briny is just "part of being overwhelmed by the nature o the campaign."

Tell you what, TM. Dana Lee showed his real self in that exchange. What you do when the chips are down shows who you are. It's real easy to be lovable and nice when nothing is challenging your SQ.

You are treading very close to the "no-one is responsible for their bad behavior" line.

Please don't be upset with me; I'm only writing this because my Dad wouldn't let me have the bow and arrow I wanted when I was 6.

Bob Stone
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Town Manager...

I have been hanging around this forum since 1998, and you have just been subjected to one of the best two handed, Shaq style slamma jammas I have ever seen here. Mustard or relish?

Mel, I bow in your general direction. W - O - W.

Dan Billings
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Town Managers often take the blame for those that they work for. A good Town Manager provides the Town's governing board with good information and his or her recommendations, but follow the direction set by the elected folks.

A few Town Managers seem to think that they know best and should run the show. Jim Bennett is the best example of that model. Dana Lee appears to me to be a small town Jim Bennett. Just as arrogant, but not quite as slick.

Naran
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Bob - damned straight.

Mel - well done.

TM - when are you going to learn that the AMG populace won't buy the yard goods from the MMA PR department?

When we see onions, we know onions.

Naran
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Dan - we have a "Jim Bennett" in Kennebunk that could out-Bennett the real Bennett.

Beware the manager who really wants to be Mayor.

Naran
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Mary - when you talk to George Fogg, please thank him from me, for the excellent letter to the Poland board. They cannot say later on that they were not warned upfront.

mediadog
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Town managers seem to have a mutual admiration society. However, I found Lee's snarls at George plenty off-putting. And I suspect a number of the good citizens of Poland will eventually feel the same way, perhaps sooner than later.

I can't buy the line that Lee's email harangue was some kind of isolated instance of personal burn-out. Sorry, TM, it just doesn't compute.

Naran
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Agreed.

Town Manager
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Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I am sticking by my opinion. And Dan, to compare Dana Lee to Jim Bennett tells me you do not know at least one of these individuals. Both have their shortcomings as we all do, but both are quite effective at what they do and HOW they chose to do it. But the two could not be any more different in their style, approach and management.

TM

Naran
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Joined: 10/06/2004 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Oh. You mean Jim Bennett is smart enough not to send peevish, insulting emails to the public?

Naran
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Joined: 10/06/2004 - 12:01am
Does Dana Lee Miss Taking 'The Public's Crap?'

Received by George Fogg, and posted here at his request - a reply to his letter about Dana Lee from one of the Poland selectmen. The only response he's received thus far.

[quote] Original Message -----
From: jcimino
To: GEORGE FOGG
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Your new Town Manager

Thank you for your replies. I was and still am a supporter of Tabor. If their is a better solution than "government has all the answers" I would like to see it!!
joecimino
[/quote]

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