EPA Bans Most Wood-Burning Stoves

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Three Pipe Problem
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Joined: 05/10/2012 - 11:40am
EPA Bans Most Wood-Burning Stoves

"The EPA has banned the production and sale of the types of stoves used by about 80 percent of those with such stoves. The regulations limit the amount of “airborne fine-particle matter” to 12 micrograms per cubic meter of air. The current EPA regulations allow for 15 micrograms in the same amount of air space."

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/10/02/epa-bans-most-wood-burning-stoves/

woodcanoe
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Joined: 02/22/2005 - 1:01am
Suppose they are going to

Suppose they are going to have a SWAT team to enter the homes of "scofflaws" and seize their prohibited equipment?

I have an Atlantic Queen kitchen wood stove that was my great grandmothers. It works just as good now as it did in 1924!

We don't need this level of government.......in the lives of free people!

WC

Islander
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Joined: 02/13/2009 - 12:16pm
Cass Sunstein nudge, nudge

Cass Sunstein nudge, nudge

matt8888
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Joined: 10/14/2007 - 10:09am
I'm guessing the EPA would

I'm guessing the EPA would not be a fan of my burn barrel or fire pit.

Three Pipe Problem
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Joined: 05/10/2012 - 11:40am
Imagine what they could do

Imagine what they could do with drones, matt8888.

Roger Ek
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Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
You asked. Watch the
Vic Berardelli
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Joined: 12/26/2001 - 1:01am
Five or six years ago I was

Five or six years ago I was in California in December and the radio and TV were reporting that the state environmental agency had issued a wood burning ban day in certain counties due to air quality. Apparently they have agents drive through neighborhoods and if they see smoke coming out of a chimney they leave a summons at the door! I was told they often do this on the coldest of days if they deem an air quality "emergency."

KennyRoberts
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Joined: 01/18/2005 - 1:01am
oh well, the noose tightens

oh well, the noose tightens around my frozen neck.

It is so sad that probably 1,000 people total are dragging around the other 300,000,000 by the short hairs and we are just helpless sheep going to slaughter.

(picture Charlton Heston holding a wood stove over his head in one hand)

Ugenetoo
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Joined: 08/05/2011 - 12:32pm
While you guys debate this

While you guys debate this issue, I'm going out to throw another tire on the fire.
Just because I can.

Melvin Udall
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Joined: 05/01/2002 - 12:01am
Is the EPA banning forest

Is the EPA banning forest fires?

It must be horrible to have a job regulating things, and one day you come to work and realize you haven't written a new regulation in three months....so if you want to keep your job.....you better get busy.....

It really makes me wonder how this mass of tripe spends their average work week, month, year, etc....

Melvin Udall
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Joined: 05/01/2002 - 12:01am
From the link: In some areas

From the link:

In some areas of the country, local governments have gone further than the EPA and banned not just the sale of such stoves, but the usage of old stoves – and even the usage of fireplaces. That means that even if you still have a stove or a fireplace, you can’t burn it for fear of a fine. Puget Sound, Washington, is one such location.

Someone will have to start a business making 'stack purifiers' or some such that can go on top of chimneys, right?

I wonder how many unknown regs will make it virtually impossible to get rid of the offending stove, but illegal to keep it? Will you have to get 'stuck on the MTA with the damn thing?'

Rebecca
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Joined: 05/07/2008 - 3:17pm
EPA shows up to ban wood

EPA shows up to ban wood stoves and end heaters? In my town? There would be blood.

woodcanoe
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Joined: 02/22/2005 - 1:01am
The Founders did NOT want the

The Founders did NOT want the American people to have to live by laws that were made by people who did not have to face the voters.

We deserve this for not doing something about EPA, LURC, IRS and a whole lot more, long ago!

And to top it all off the elected ones "Congress critters" and "legislators" don't have time to actually "read" the bills, as we have been told here lately, thus those we elect rely upon staff and (swallow hard)Lobbyists, to keep them "informed". Then we end up with laws, such as Obamacare, that the lawmakers who actually voted for them, did not really know all that they contained. No wonder then that we have so much of this trouble.

Bah on "rule making" by faceless unelected bureaucrats, wherever they are hiding. They are worse than rats in a chicken house.

WC

Reaganite
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Joined: 06/21/2008 - 4:05pm
EPA's "Burn Wise"

EPA's "Burn Wise" Website

Enjoy your daily dose of condescension from your betters.

Bob MacGregor
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Joined: 12/13/2003 - 1:01am
Seems a bit over hyped to

Seems a bit over hyped to me.

Two comments;

"Wood-burning stoves offer warmth and enhance off-grid living options during cold weather months, but the tried-and-true heating devices now are under attack by the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA has banned the production and sale of the types of stoves used by about 80 percent of those with such stoves."

That last sentence doesn't mean anything. 80% of those with what "such" stoves? 80% of those with banned stoves? Gibberish.

And the EPA website includes a list of approved stoves that is 18 pages long and which includes the out-of-production, non-catalytic stove we own that we have used since 1992.

Peruse the list and see if your own stove is banned or not. I would wager most of us have approved stoves already in place.

Ugenetoo
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Joined: 08/05/2011 - 12:32pm
So, Bob...... in order to

So, Bob...... in order to overcome this incrementalism your best defense is to cover your ears and chant La la la la la...................?

Abacus
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Joined: 01/14/2011 - 12:21pm
Has anyone looked at the new,

Has anyone looked at the new, efficient wood burning stoves lately? My parents bought one a few years ago since it would be 'more efficient' than the wood/coal combination stove I gave them (which I still have and is available, BTW). We grew up with wood and heated with it exclusively during the 80's when fuel oil prices were so high, usually preparing 12-14 cord of wood every summer. What they noticed with the new, super-duper, high-speed and low-drag, efficient wood stove was that it has no air inlet (draft) at the bottom of the stove, only at the top. This means the air must come in through the top of the stove, go down to the bottom to sustain the fire, and then go up out the chimney.

Riddle me this, Batman, which way does fire burn, up or down?

Yep, the darned thing is a piece of junk to operate and they have to 'prime' the stove with the door open to get the fire going, because otherwise the fire will light and then go out because it won't draw air in when it's cold, the air goes straight up the chimney. When it is warm it will draw some air, but act more like a coal stove than a wood stove and never quite 'gets going' the way wood stoves normally operate.

When they went back to the stove store to see if they just bought a defect, the owner said all the new stoves were that way. It was supposedly more efficient and I'm sure some brainiac has the documentation to show you, on paper, that it is.

Naran
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Joined: 10/06/2004 - 12:01am
We are, indeed, being

We are, indeed, being regulated to death in America.

Bob MacGregor
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Joined: 12/13/2003 - 1:01am
Ugene, what I am saying is

Ugene, what I am saying is the article referenced does not back up the claim made in it's title, that the EPA is banning "most" wood burning stoves. If you read the EPA document with the list of approved stoves, it would be a challenge to come up with a larger list that shows "most" of today's woodstoves are no longer acceptable under the EPA's standards.

Abacus, the concept of introducing combustion air at the top of the burn chamber does indeed make sense, and when the stove is used properly it should burn cleaner (and thus stay cleaner) than older styles. The stoves are designed in such a way to draw the fresh, colder air into the stove and preheat it before it is used for combustion, thus making the stove more efficient. If all you do is introduce cold air at the bottom of the fire and then it up the chimney, you're wasting some of the energy in the fire just heating up the fresh air. The warmer the air is before it gets to the combustion chamber, the more efficient the fire becomes.

Yes it can be a challenge when the stove and chimney are cold, because you have to get a draft started to draw the air into the stove and up the chimney. But that can be an issue with any wood burning stove, and once you have established a draft the air will keep flowing that way until the fire dies out.

Like it or not new woodstoves burn cleaner and more efficiently than older stoves, so you get more heat from your firewood than you did in the past. I'm not suggesting everyone replace their trusty stove with a new one, like I said ours is 20+ years old and burns well, burns clean, and only requires occasional maintenance when the top baffle wears out.

Abacus
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Joined: 01/14/2011 - 12:21pm
You never answered my

You never answered my question, which way does fire burn, up or down?

Now, where are the drafts located?

I rest my case.

Roger Ek
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Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
I know of a home with a

I know of a home with a Tulukivi masonry stove from Finland. That home was nice and warm for the last four winters on less than a cord of wood per winter. You start the stove and run a hot fire for a few minutes. Then close it down to a set level for the long term. One cord per winter folks. As a matter of disclosure, the home is also designed for passive solar and has Maine slate for a floor. The sun warms the slate in winter. In the summer, the sun doesn't hit the slate.

http://www.tulikivi.com/usa-can

Nom de Plume
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Joined: 03/07/2012 - 10:21am
Abacus, there may be some

Abacus, there may be some help for you, and others in the same boat with a newer stove. Look in your manual, if available, or online. Find the 'exploded view', and you may find a part or two labeled 'Air Blocker (for USA)' or similar terminology. This part or parts are required by the EPA to prevent the air draw you desire. You didn't hear it from me, but I've heard tales of folks removing this part (or parts) and being very happy with the results.

Abacus
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Joined: 01/14/2011 - 12:21pm
Thanks Nom, we looked into it

Thanks Nom, we looked into it when we Googled the stove, and there are parts available in other countries to convert it to a 'normal' stove, but it requires replacing part of the base and those parts are not available on this side of the Pond. I may look into them when we go to England in the spring. There are a few other things I'm getting over there that are not available over here.

Roger Ek
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Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
You could even get a Toyota

You could even get a Toyota Tacoma Diesel crew cab pickup. They are sold and loved in 156 countries, but not here.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/52448/2012-toyota-hilux-4x4-double-cab-...

Ford Ranger Diesel crew cabs are also distributed in many countries. We have given thousands of them to Afghanistan.

http://gas2.org/2012/07/28/diesel-ranger-gets-driven-in-the-uk/

http://blogs.militarytimes.com/battle-rattle/2012/04/13/afghan-police-dr...

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