I imagine the feds had a informant or two inside stirring the pot. Viewing the Hutaree website, this group seemed quite gullible, who knows what plots were discussed with their new found friends. They probably discussed everything from killing the anti-christ to making nuclear bombs and taking out Mecca.
They may have even collected urine and rotten onions. Yes it is a passion play for our edification and also gives the brute squad some practice for the real deal.
I don't find anything on their site that indicates any feeling at all for or against policemen...or anything that advocates violence...
Here's the indictment
You make the call.
Blogger Ann Althouse:
..."Assuming these allegations are true, this is indeed a nefarious plan and it's great that these people were caught. But I must also say that it's interesting to see that Improvised Explosive Devices with Explosively Formed Projectiles, which, according to the indictment are "weapons of mass destruction." That blows a big hole in the notion that there weren't weapons of mass destruction in Iraq"....
Another interesting observation is that the Government gets a free pass to tell its side of the story for many months before any trial. The indictment sounds deadly..........if true.
Convincing a gullible media and American people is the easy part.
Proving it in front of a jury is a bit harder.
The same government charged Randy Weaver with conspiracy to kill a federal agent, among other things. Weaver's defense attorney, Gerry Spence, the Wyoming trial lawyer, destroyed the governments case without calling one witness for the defense.
All he had to do was point out all the lies and falsified evidence, like the magic shell casing, in the government's case.
Could be deja vu all over again her too maybe, who knows........yet?
Seems pretty flimsy - these folks were obviously preparing for the collapse of the federal government. Now if they were seriously planning to move that process along with a specific plan, targeting innocent parties (which the gov seems awfully vague about), then this is real. Not as real as Bill Ayers, but these guys don't have his lawyers, and of course he was a moderate.
I found the opening of the indictment saying that this group is "an anti government extremist organization which advocates violence against local, state and federal law enforcement" a bit bogus. Since they have never done anything violent to anyone (or at least the gov doesn't allege they have), the gov can only charge them with the catch-all charge of conspiracy.
Conspiracy is 0 to 20 years, and in the US requires only a single witness. Nothing quite like it when it comes to framing people. In England, two witnesses are required, and no civilized place on earth has any 0 to 20 year club in the gov's arsenal.
I suggest the whole group change their names to Jane Fonda 1-2-3-etc. Seems to me she and her buddies advocated violence against the USA. Some of them even actually committed acts of violence...
"Here's the indictment
You make the call."
One can indict a ham sandwich...evidence and a trial is more indicative.
Olberman and Anderson 360 are spinning this "right wing threat" as was done under Clinton. The Southern Poverty Law Center is right in the front as usual called the experts by the left on dangerous groups.
It's 1994 all over again
The indictment reads like a movie script rather than an indictment, I would say a paid informant put the case together a.k.a. bullshitartist and this is a fine piece of 'wait-for-it' government propaganda. Oh deary did I say that they will come for me next
There is a fictional text titled "Unintended "Consequences". Hardbound new copies are for sale for $900. Alphabet agencies buy them when they can find them just to keep them out of circulation. You can find them on Craig's List for prices as low as $250.
It's fiction. It is like many scenarios that appear on line and are played out to some imaginary conclusion. There are hundreds of combat action games and scenarios on computer screens every day. These people use nicknames as they do on many web sites such as AMG. These nicknames or code names as depicted buy the alphabet guys are not sinister. Ever hear of Mafia Wars? Same kind of deal. Alliances and conspiracies are required.
Ever hear of the SCA? It's the Society for Creative Anachronisms. It's like role playing dungeons and dragons. It looks like the alphabet agencies became role players in one of these games and hoodwinked a grand jury into believing it. This will be very embarrassing to the agencies. Maybe if the Obama Administration hired real cops things like this would not happen.
What kind of feared reactionary group puts a rock band link on their website and has a impish guy sitting in the grass playing with his ponchos. But they do have AR-15s and That is damn scarey to the general numbskull out there like Olberman.
It's good to see however that Ron "tater salad" White escaped the federal dragnet and he is probably holed up with Larry a.k.a. the cable guy
Juan Williams attempted to paint the Tea Party movement as kin to the militia groups. Thankfully Bill O'Reilly called him flat out on it. Can only imagine how the MSM is trumpeting this horse **** comparison.....
"Juan Williams attempted to paint the Tea Party movement as kin to the militia groups."
So Mr. Williams has problems with the first two amendments of the constitution? I wonder if he knows that if it were not for militias...we would not be a nation...
woodcanoe, I don't think Vernon Wayne Howell as some great guy.... Ya, the government alphabet soup didn't go about it right, but that doesn't make the guy an American hero. If nothing else, I think that a lot was learned there, and hopefully mistakes wont get repeated.
That was brought up and Juan gave a lame "that was then and this is now." He also said the use of the "Don't Tread On Me" was now a "racist" and "anti-government" flag seperate from the way it is used in New England.
Tea Party=racist=anti government militia
Bill OReilly brought up that kook members of the democrat party never color the entire democrat party in the MSM...
Well, according to the indictment, the government says that these 9 folks are the personification of evil. Enemies of the State (sounds like a movie title), declaring "war" on the United States, and more.
Ought to stand them up against a wall someplace and just shoot em all, right? After all the government says they are "domestic terrorists" and big Sis has told us all, repeatedly, about the dangers of these "militia guys" and their criticism of the government, right?
Except for one thing. America was built upon the idea of the rule of law, something many have conveniently forgotten.
After 9/11 the battle was on to "get" the terrorists, wherever they may be. Funny, some of the places we thought they are but thats another story.
But many of us, including me for a while, were willing to see our government do whatever it could to the terrorists. Anyone who would do such a thing did not deserve any mercy. Funny what the need for revenge does to human beings.
Orlando Sentinel columnist Charley Reese, whom I read for years, coined several favorite phrases which I have remembered for a long time. He said: "If you send the government after your enemy, sooner or later he gets around to coming after you!"
Charley summarized, well, in one sentence, the exact dangers the founders of this nation foresaw in there ever being a powerful central government. Power corrupts, which they all knew, and they knew that if the central government became all powerful that, sooner or later, those in power would send their agents against their political enemies. Soviet Russia did this well for 75 yrs, You can read about the gulags in many accounts written by some who survived them. They went there becasue they had committed no crimes.............................except to criticize the government!
Yesterday it was suggested that we "read the indictment, then make up our minds. But the thing about grand jury proceedings is that the government gets to tell its side of the story and the defense gets to say..............nothing. So what you read is word for word what the government thinks.
Conspiracy? Can be whatever one's imagination wants it to be. Randy Weaver was charged with conspiracy to murder a federal agent. And found guilty of what?
Failure to appear in court on his original charge of a short gun barrel, when the court date had been changed without his being aware of the change. Millions of dollars spent, several lives lost and for what, so our government could declare someone "guilty of something" like they have here, then they could carry out the execution, or try to?
Another strange thing, and in play in this case: Killing a human being is "murder" if premeditated. Killing a law enforcement office is worse. In some states the death penalty is allowed only in cases of killing a law enforcement officer. It would seem to me that taking a life is a very serious issue. Why should it matter if that person was wearing a badge?
But if these guys, and referring to them as "trailer trash" may not be that far out of line (not sure who put the gay porn on their website and probably don't want to know) and if they were stupid enough to discuss, with an informant, plans to kill a lawman then they opened themselves up to be "Rodney Kinged". Pig-piled so-to-speak. When someone has assaulted an officer, or harmed an officer, or failed to stop as in a high speed pursuit, what happens when the culprit is caught? A wild pig-pile and melee takes place. There are thousands of hours of video-taped evidence of this psychological phenomona in action all over television and the internet. I have seen footage of a very large officer running at full tilt, approaching a suspect from the blind side, launch himself horizontally through the air and take the guy down like a Patriots linebacker taking down the opposing quaterback.
Among law enforcement officers (and prosecutors) there is very much the attitude that if he "hurts one of our brothers we are going to muck him up good!" As I said there is incontrovertible evidence that this attiude exists. And it is in play here. These dummies talked about "offing a lawman" and that is about the worst sin of all to the government!
But these days, in this age, there are millions of Americans who no longer believe in the rule of law, at least as it might apply to some people. Millions of Americans believe that "torturing terrorists" is fair game. I did for awhile after 9/11 but eventually came to my senses and realized that if we treat our enemies like that then we become no better than them.
The government is well known for using paid informants. They did that with Randy Weaver, David Koresh and many others. In reality paying for information and torturing someone for information, get you to the same place. People who are receiving money for what they have to say will always try to please he who pays. The one who is tortured will eventually tell the abuser what he/she wants to hear. Psycholigically they are one and the same. Information received using either method is totally unreliable.
The Innocence Project has gained the release of over 30 convicts from death row, freed upon the basis of incontrovertible DNA evidence of thier innocence. Many of these death row inhabitants had signed confessions of guilt, after hours and hours of law enforcement interrogation techniques more fitting in a Russian Gulag than in the USA.
Only time will tell if the government can make their case. But milliions of Americans already believe the Hutaree 9 to be guilty, just because the government says so. We were a nation built upon the rule of law and it is in our nature to try and return to that one day, no matter what Big Sis, or anyone else in the government might say. It should scare the crap out of any decent American to see the overwhelming force that is being unleashed, in compliance with a very willing media, upon those who dare to criticize those in power in Washington DC
"They say the group plotted to kill a police officer and slaughter scores more by bombing the funeral — all in hopes of touching off an uprising against the government."
That is a little more than killing one officer. We OFTEN weigh in with our thoughts and such before people are deemed legally "innocent" or "guilty" in the judicial system. I personally don't mind officers enjoying a tiny bit more protection with their jobs knowing that if they are murdered then there will be a little bit more H3LL to pay.
There very well may be no informant in this case, because of the Patriot Act, our government does not even need probable cause to wiretap or pertform electronic surveilance on a group. These people could have been sitting around a barbecue and just talking about what could be done. A proposed dungeon and dragons scenario was discussed and because this group has guns, does military mock training, wacky ideas, they are the perfect candidate for a bust.
The scenario of their discussion also fits perfectly into a case for stifling the tea party dissent, they were going to kill police officers. A better scenario cannot be had to stifle the tea party, because tea partiers and potential tea party members are generally god=fearing patriotic Americans. With the media and government promoting the case of god-fearing cop-killing nuts you have the perfect stifle, thus nipping this dissent in the bud. The average joe is less apt to join this cause, don't want to be associated with nuts.
I find the real tell in this situation comes from the media. The media that we have in this country is completely in bed with the government. The media promoted both wars and with now their darling Obama in there, they promote the continuation of both wars and the inclusion of a third Iran.
The corporate media is Goebbels incarnate, they are the lowest form of life in America, certainly below trailer trash that play army with their AR15s.
Is it still safe to play the game "Mafia Wars" on line? I don't play any on line games, but they are popular entertainment for some folks. In that game the participants adopt aliases and imaginary names, plot takeovers, alliances and murders. They set up traps to lure people into ambushes. It's FICTION. It would be one thing if some part time deputy somewhere was taken in by this imaginary game, but the Obama administration sent hundreds of federal officers with air cover to arrest some on line gamers. In the process they bamboozled a grand jury into actually indicting these gamers. Eventually this will come back to whoever thought this up. It should be a career ending move.
In 1968 the Democratic National Convention was held in Chicago. The fringe group of activists known as the Youth International Party took over Lincoln Park and with no weapons managed to create a stand off with Law Enforcement. Abbie Hofman, Jerry Rubin, and a band of followers were tried for their acts and made a mockery out of the system at large with outbursts of insurrection during the proceeding. It was one of the most followed trials of the times. The fringe mobilized a counties ideological roots, it just happened to originate from the left and not the right. The media could not get enough coverage of the court room drama. What remains to be seen is if right wing fringe groups will get the same coverage during their trails.
Fringe groups are not new to this county.
".....the Obama administration sent hundreds of federal officers with air cover to arrest some on line gamers."
I know so many online MMORPG players and FPS players that that thought actually made me "laugh out loud." :D
A lawyer I knew nipped a case like this in the bud when a local Sheriff was preparing to arrest a woman on a complaint of conspiring to murder her husband. The husband found the following written over multiple times, with corrections, and concluded it was a plan to conceal his body:
TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
That's right, Robert Frost's The Road Not Taken. The poor lady was trying to memorize it, and nobody in the Sheriff's department had the slightest clue what it meant.
I blame public education....
here's a link to a CNN bit that suggests the wack group Hutaree was hosting a tea party. CNN throws Hutaree in with the Michigan Militia Group. The MI militia group and Hutaree are separate, but CNN suggests tea party, Hutaree, Michigan Militia they are all the same.
the comments after this bit are priceless also, it is quite obvious the AOL crowd have absolutely no clue as to the media deception
Your story of the local Sheriff should not lead to the blame of pubic education as much as law enforcement practices. A simple interview with the wife may have pointed the investigator to the true intentions of the drafted letters. A quick trip to the local library would solve the case and bring comfort to the paranoid husband. The courts most likely got to hear a divorce case as a result of the accusations.
I've listened to the news stories and I've read the indictment and it appears to me this group of "wannabe whatevers" will get their 15 minutes of fame. Here is my advice to any who are thinking of plotting against the government. DON'T BUILD YOURSELF A WEB SITE! DON'T PLAN TO KILL POLICE OFFICERS! DON'T ATTEMPT TO PURCHASE EXPLOSIVE DEVICES FROM PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW! There are probably no rocket scientists among this group, but that doesn't mean they weren't serious in their intentions. It's easy to criticize the government action here, but we don't know the full story and these guys will get their day in court. What does concern me is that the Obama administration and the MSM will use this to try and discredit anti-government activity and 2nd Amendment rights. Plotting to kill law enforcement officers is not the answer to this country's problems!
The wife of one of the defendants described Hutaree as a small group of patriotic, Christian buddies who were just doing survival training.
She came home Saturday night to find her house in disarray. Agents seized the guns her husband collected as a hobby and searched for bomb-making materials, she said, "He doesn't even know how to make a bomb. We had no bomb material here."
Christian militia accused of plotting to kill cops
Hmmm... I'm starting to think when this blows over the Fed is going to end up with egg on its face.
"It's issues like eminent domain and immigration, and apparently national health care in some quarters," said Cid, a former FBI counterterrorism agent. "It's increasing these people's ire and their discomfort with their own government."
Hmmmm... If you're not "comfortable," then Homeland Security is probably keeping an eye on YOU!
Homeland security motto: "Don't worry - Be Happy! Or else!!"
"The wife of one of the defendants described Hutaree as a small group of patriotic, Christian buddies who were just doing survival training."
Right! Does anyone even consider that things are sometimes just what they appear to be? The default for some people and groups (Christian, Muslim, or whatever) is violence! If we oppose violent Muslim groups shouldn't we oppose violent Christian ones? It seems to me some are rolling this up into a ball of all their frustrations with government. If this group is guilty of what they are charged with then they don't deserve our pity!
I'm sure government has another dozen militia christian groups that they can bust in the next coming year and most will be tied to the tea party or militias. I'd expect another terrorist attack soon also, but this one will be home grown. It's uncanny how all the domestic nuts come out when the dems are in power and all the foreign terrorists come out when the republicans are in power. Truely uncanny
And truly wrong...remember the Clinton years...one domestic attack and a half dozen foreign ones.
That's true Reno did most of the attacking
"What kind of feared reactionary group puts a rock band link on their website?"
Answer: Lots of groups use music to attract attention. Without attention, extremist organizations die when their first echelon leaders are killed or go into hiding, and their footsoldiers are neutralized.
Here's a light show:
Of course, as genuine as the above are, some have questioned the authenticity of this Al Qaida training video, with music: