The flag and the anthem

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pmconusa
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The flag and the anthem

There are no laws or regulations regarding the flag or the national anthem of the United States. There is a certain etiquette that has been observed over time with these symbols of American nationhood. Not everyone knows these forms of observance which is evidenced by just looking at the crowds gathered at parades or sporting events. The etiquette is simple; military and veterans stand, face the flag and salute. All others, except women, remove their hats, face the flag and place their right hand over their hearts while the flag is passing or until the anthem is complete.
There is no punishment meted out for non-compliance, except that of being noticed and silently condemned by one’s fellow countrymen. So as not to stand out, foreigners present at these events usually conform, just as we do when the anthem of a foreign country is played, as it is when the Canadian anthem is played at games where they face American teams. We are intimidated to do what the majority do. There are some who do not want to conform even when there is no downside into not doing so.
The problem of compelling these gestures of etiquette respecting the nationality, race or religion on those who are not of similar persuasions has been avoided in the public schools by simply not employing them. Very few public schools continue to salute the flag and say the pledge of allegiance every morning and certainly don’t read biblical passages and say a prayer as I did as a student in the public schools of the 1940s and 50s.
Colin Kaepernick is not, in my opinion, eschewing the etiquette of the anthem for the sake of some cause, but to call attention to himself because he has been cast aside by an employer who no longer wants his services or a league that is not willing to employee him. This is evidenced by the fact that he has now filed suit against the league seeking monetary damages. He has attracted the conformance of others, who misguidedly are in sympathy with his alleged support of African-Americans who are being discriminated against by the police. That the latter is not true is of no consequence.
All that would be necessary to put a stop to this would be to not play the national anthem at the ballparks and stop patriotic displays at other sporting events. America would be no different in their absence. Immigrants to the United States need take only an oath renouncing their previous allegiance and to swear to support the Constitution and laws of the United States. Unless you are entering military service, naturally born citizens are not required to take such an oath supporting the Constitution and the laws of the United States. There is no mention of saluting the flag, singing the anthem or otherwise mandating the etiquette that has surrounded these symbols of nationhood.

Bruce Libby
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I believe that is inaccurate,

I believe that is inaccurate, he has filed a grievance based on the player ageement ( contract for representation).

pmconusa
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What was inaccurate? Isn't

What you believe is inaccurate.

johnw
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Hmmmmmm I’m at a big

Hmmmmmm I’m at a big convention in Chicago.....yesterday at the general sesssion the national anthem was played.There were probably at least four thousand people in the auditorium ,from as many as 70 different countries......they all seemed to have no problem whatsoever standing up in a simple gesture of respect for our country.......Let the kneelers kneel and stop feeding the fire.........

DisPas
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Here, here, johnw.

Here, here, johnw.

This is America. You can kneel for the anthem if you want to. Hell, you can burn the flag in front of gold-star parents if you want to.

Bruce Libby
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pmconusa your statement that

pmconusa your statement that he is suing. A grievance is not a suit.

pmconusa
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According to Webster the word

According to Webster the word sue means to appeal, petition or beseech. You seem to be going out of your way just to find fault. That I find a very obtuse way to try and discredit what I say.

Melvin Udall
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Apparently, many of your

Apparently, many of your comments sue us.

BTW: you left out the definition that relates to instituting legal proceedings; seems like kind of an obtuse move on your part.

Bruce Libby
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pmconusa

pmconusa
For a person such as yourself the clue was "player agreement" !

johnw
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Thousands and thousands are

Thousands and thousands are still homeless,and befret of basic necessities is Texas,Florida,Puerto Rico and Californiafromthe fires....and what is the press talking about .....kneelers......geez.

pmconusa
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JohnW: That is because the

JohnW: That is because the government will do something about the people in Puerto Rico eventually but nothing about the kneelers. Ironic isn't it.

Mel: That is the trouble with the English language. Many words have several different meanings. Take the word gay for example. Like Bruce, you can choose the one that suits you.

Melvin Udall
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In the case of "sue," I think

In the case of "sue," I think it was pretty clear what the sense of the word was here. To claim otherwise is a stretch most would snicker at, to say the very least.

The situation is amplified when a noted author and Doctor of Philosophy does so and then tries to hide from it.

pmconusa
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Kaepernik has accused the NFL

Kaepernik has accused the NFL of collusion to deny him his job. If that is not about money I don't know what is.

I am not noted and I don't think others would say I hide from anything. That is of course meaningless to you since your single purpose is to find fault even where it does not exist.

Melvin Udall
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So you think Kaepernick is

So you think Kaepernick is appealing, beseeching, or petitioning?

Did you see these words in your own post:

"This is evidenced by the fact that he has now filed suit against the league seeking monetary damages."

Let's face it; your real bone is that Bruce caught you in a semantics trap, and he is not worthy of you.

Memo to AMG for the record: pmcon never has and never will correct anyone.

pmconusa
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Then what is he doing?

Then what is he doing?

Melvin Udall
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How obtuse do you want to be

How obtuse do you want to be on this?

I suppose you could substitute your indicated sense for the term "class action lawsuit" with no diminishment in meaning or context.

Words mean things. Stretching their semantic application in context only to say "nanner nanner nanner" is part of your rhetorical charm offensive.

Bruce Libby
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pmconusa

pmconusa
A grievance is the chosen means he had at his disposal. That is common in most collective bargaining agreements.

In this matter it is not a matter of choosing words with various meanings. A grievance is a specific mechanism in labor disputes. Actually if one doesn't avail themselves of the procedure courts , will not hear the case until it is shown he utilized the procedure.

anonymous_coward
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He did file a grievance, but

He did file a grievance, but it is essentially the same as a lawsuit. If it is ruled in his favor, the NFL has to pay out 3x his damage:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/15/colin-kaepernick-collusion-lawsuit-aga...

The rules of evidence are the same as a federal court, but the NFL does not allow the same degree of pre-trial discovery. Also, the proceedings are private, not public.

Anyone that watches football knows that he's better than a LOT of the starting QBs today (given the dearth of talent, and the high number of injuries this season), but that in and of itself does not prove collusion.

The bar is pretty high, and I suspect that his lawyers are betting that the NFL will want to settle this to make it go away.

Of course, it won't go away, b/c NFL owners are greedy, egotistical bastards and they won't settle.

In any event, I believe that pmcon is wrong, he really didn't want to call attention to himself... he started on the path of being an activist (notice, he had a gigantic fro before everything went down, so you know he was going radical) before he declined his option.

Also, he started sucking as a QB too (though, as bad as he was, he was still a lot better than Blake Bortles/Jay Cutler/Josh McClown/Brian Hoyer).

Melvin Udall
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Of course, it won't go away,

Of course, it won't go away, b/c NFL owners are greedy, egotistical bastards and they won't settle.

On the other hand, the players and their lawyers are greedy, egotistical bastards and they won't settle.

Jasper
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Oh please, Bruce can't even

Oh please, Bruce can't even spell semantics trap, much less catch someone in one. Where on earth do you get the idea that he has the intellectual capacity to understand what he reads and writes? There is certainly no evidence of it on AMG!

pmconusa
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Jasper: Be kind, they know

Jasper: Be kind, they know not what they do. To build a mountain out of a mole hill you must get the dirt from somewhere. According to Webster dirt is dryland, ground, land, soil, terra firm or chicanery, dishonesty, double-dealing, fourberie, fraud, handy-panky, high-biding, sharp practice and, if you want to obtain synonyms of some of the above you could build a pretty extensive list.

johnw
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Maybe the real issue of

Maybe the real issue of kippersnack not having a job is that as a quarterback he just ain’t that great.......

Bruce Libby
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pmconusa thank you for your

pmconusa thank you for your caring concern. However , just be aware Smegma will do it to you also.

Bruce Libby
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johnw I also heard that no

johnw I also heard that no one wanted to have his girlfriend around also.

pmconusa
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Give someone a stage and they

Give someone a stage and they will perform, take away their stage and no one will ever hear of them.

anonymous_coward
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@Melvin: "On the other hand,

@Melvin: "On the other hand, the players and their lawyers are greedy, egotistical bastards and they won't settle."

Not going to argue about avarice but for whatever reason the NFLPA has been significantly weaker than any of the other 3 sports (if you look at player vs owner power).

anonymous_coward
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@johnw: "Maybe the real issue

@johnw: "Maybe the real issue of kippersnack not having a job is that as a quarterback he just ain’t that great......."

As a niners fan, I can tell you he was pretty bad towards the end of his tenure. But he can run a 4.5 40, which makes him a better offensive weapon than a lot of starting NFL QBs.

Obviously if you're trying to rebuild it would be better to give reps to a rookie QB. But let's say you are primarily a running team, why not pick him up to add an additional dimension to your game (thinking about the Vikings here, who have lost their starting QB to injury, who wasn't even that great to begin with)?

The other thing that I think is in play is the tanking phenomenon (that is, losing intentionally so you can get a higher draft pick) has spread from the NBA to the NFL. The 49ers and Browns are clearly not trying to win. So I guess if you already have a shitty QB and you are trying to lose, you stick w/ that shitty QB.

pmconusa
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The only thing the monopoly

The only thing the monopoly sport associations contribute to society is amusement or an exciting way to fill time. It is no wonder people are turning them off because they have turned into a sniveling bunch of millionaires.

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