As Don Imus would say, "You can't make stuff like this up."
Bangor Daily News
Where I grew up misuse of monies that one is entrusted with, is called "embezzlement" or, in simpler terms, it is called "stealing".
My mother handled other people's money for over 50 yrs and would never have thought of taking even one penny to use on herself.
It is interesting to see how this was "sanitized" by calling it a loan that was paid back. The bottom line is that nobody handling money belonging to someone else, has any legal right to divert any of it to his own personal use.
Recently in Maine dozens of people have been convicted for embezzling from their employer, town, civic group etc, and have been convicted and punished for their criminal act.
Same thing is due in this case.
Well said WC, stealing is stealing. And the people who covered this up should also be held accountable.
Mike - thanks for posting this. No matter which party does it, we need to address it.
Former party treasurer’s use of GOP, federal funds to buy camper was kept under wraps
By Naomi Schalit and John Christie, Maine Center for Public Interest Reporting
Posted May 09, 2012
Phil Roy wanted a camper.
It cost $15,000, but he didn’t have the money.
What Roy did have was access to cash.....
Roy....managed a federally funded agency’s checking account ....(and)... the checking account of the state Republican Party, for which he was treasurer.
Wow! Can you say federal indictment.
Title 18 US Code, Sec 648 - Custodians Generally Misusing Public Funds
Whoever, being an officer or other person charged by any Act of Congress with the safe-keeping of the public moneys, loans, uses, or converts to his own use, or deposits in any bank, including any branch or agency of a foreign bank (as such terms are defined in paragraphs (1) and (3) of section 1(b) of the International Banking Act of 1978), or exchanges for other funds, except as specially allowed by law, any portion of the public moneys intrusted to him for safe-keeping, is guilty of embezzlement of the money so loaned, used, converted, deposited, or exchanged, and shall be fined under this title or in a sum equal to the amount of money so embezzled, whichever is greater, or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; but if the amount embezzled does not exceed $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
How very stupid!
Why was he sitting next to and advising Tweed at the convention this past weekend?
Dan Billings will be wearing a smug look today. Okay Dan. You were right, but if you tell anyone I said that, I'll deny it.
What's really surprising is that he's landed another financial job. However, these days most past employers will only give out the hire and termination dates to avoid lawsuits. I remember we had that policy at a company I worked for many years ago and I got a reference call for a former employee who was a walking workers comp case. I think I sent enough indirect signals to prevent future suffering by another employer.
You would have thought that his past would have got out through the "jungle telegraph"!
The BDN story includes a reference to Dan Billings writing about Roy on As Maine Goes. It must be this thread: http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/billings-phil-roy-must-go
When I get calls for references, and the one being referenced didn't measure up to my standards, I simply keep repeating "I do not give bad references" over and over again until the caller either gets it or hangs up.
Would appear many of the higher ups in the Maine GOP knew of this and did nothing. Shame on them all. For me it calls into question their fitness to hold the positions they do. Can't help but wonder what else is out there that's being hidden.
Now that everyone knows what previoulsy was known by only a few, will the tolerence for Charlie Webster continue? Reading about the alleged cover-up regarding the relationship between two legislators involved in pfa, this cover-up is way greater as it involves an actual cover-up.
Roy-gate, camper-gate, anything but Billings-gate.
I've been told that the BDN version of the story was heavily edited. The original version can be found here:http://pinetreewatchdog.org/2012/05/09/officials-use-of-us-and-gop-funds...
From the linked story above:
......"“It was absolutely the wrong thing to do, not only legally, but also ethically,” said Thompson.......Roy said he borrowed the $15,000 in federal money from the Workforce Board., according to Smith’s narrative........But if it was a loan, it wasn’t documented........“No promissory note was executed between the parties,” wrote auditor Smith".......
Were I come from this kind of thing has a name. Webster and a whole lot of other people have tried valiantly to "sanitize" what happened here.
It is a whole lot easier to just call it "stealing" which is what it really is. It is unconciosable that the people who knew this had happened did not tell his new Hancock County employers. One can't help but wonder how many "loans" this gent has made to himself down there. This is like child abuse in that once a person, in position of trust, has stolen from his employer, it is all the more easier to do it again next time. The only way this man can ever get any help, is to be held accountable for his actions that were illegal. And those who knew, and then covered it up, deserve all the scorn that can be heaped on them.
It wreaks of the "good-ol-boy" network! Does Charlie Webster have any ethics at all? How can anyone have faith in a chairman like this? Charlie Webster needs to go. I'm tired off all the excuses!
And Charlie Webster is still being allowed to represent 1/24th of Maine Republicans at the Tampa Convention. His handling of the caucus vote and the convention betrays our trust in the GOP to represent us.
But I don't see anything that Mr. Webster did anything wrong in Phil Roy's case according to this article, and don't see why others here are saying he did. Just shooting your mouths off, or do you see something here I don't?
Who did Charlie Webster work for? Did the committee have a right to know? My guess is that Mr Webster will (if he hasn't already) get an invitation from a federal grand jury to relate what he knew and when. That's great for the Republican Party leading up to an election isn't it. Is that what the ME GOP has become? Are we willing to look the other way when laws have been broken to protect someone with the same party brand. That damn sure isn't me!
"Are we willing to look the other way when laws have been broken to protect someone with the same party brand. That damn sure isn't me!"
Not me either, Jim Corr! Sounds to me like Webster could be an accomplice in not outing him 3 years ago. With a position like Webster has come a great deal of accountability. Another instance of his failing to meet the responsibility demanded of his position. Hari Kari's not necessary, resignation is!
Not me either, Jim Corr!
That makes three of us!
......"Just shooting your mouths off, or do you see something here I don't?"......
You don't see anything wrong with the Party Chairman KNOWING that the treasurer was STEALING money, and saying nothing about it?
In any position of trust there is usually NO provision for making loans to oneself. It is unethical and illegal both! One can only deduce that the fact the Chairman said nothing about it was mainly to try and cover up the illegal work of the treasurer.
A good ol boys network for sure, as somebody else has already said.
I urge the State Committee to bring this up on Saturday and find out exactly what the Chairman knew and when he knew it. If Charlie knew about this when the article says he did, then YES he should have aired it for all Republicans to know about. How is it fair to people donating their hard earned money to the Maine GOP when the money was being used inappropriately? This is just another justification for Chairman Webster's removal if the article is accurate.
Nobody has yet answered Apollo's question, about Roy being up on stage advising Tweed this weekend. If it's true, what's up with that??
woodcanoe: "You don't see anything wrong with the Party Chairman KNOWING that the treasurer was STEALING money, and saying nothing about it?"
Thing is, wc, we don't know who he talked to about it. His obligation would be to inform the corporate officers and executive board (I'd have to think there is one, since the board is so large). Unless one of us was an active board member through that time, we wouldn't be privy to this information.
I guess the "shooting mouths off" comment was a bit rude (apologies to sensitive people), but without some facts, it seems to be appropriate.
It would seem from timeline in article,Aug.09 loan request,Dec09 discovery ,Jan 10 resignation is not a unreasonable length of time given situation .
I tend to agree more details are needed. There appears to be more things involved here w/ other functions Work Board etc. then party.
This is still wrong.
Many times unbeknownst to the public organizations handle things such as this in this manner.
Years ago there was a insurance company in Portland that employed Portlands' part-time mayor . Major fraud theft etc.. was going on and several people were arrested etc., sentenced to jail etc..
The company chose not to pursue the matter initially themselves legally for fear of injuring business. The Portland cops pursued the case because of a separate matter involving mayor then company got on board!
Behavior was certainly wrong,was response to it by CW wrong is the question, and those considerations by him wrong?
We do need more information IMHO.
Fortunately it doesn't appear party lost any money.
Lesson : Do not have a part-time treasurer to begin with.
More to follow.
[quote="Jim Cyr"]Nobody has yet answered Apollo's question, about Roy being up on stage advising Tweed this weekend. If it's true, what's up with that??[/quote]
Roy, a Ron Paul supporter, was hand-picked by the Paul team to run the tallying of votes.
Quotes from the Pine Tree Watchdog article above:
....."Webster knew what had happened. He and party attorney Dan Billings, who is now Gov. Paul LePage’s in-house counsel, had been told in December 2009 about the GOP funds diversion by Smith, the independent auditor, who investigated the incident at the request of the state".......
....."Webster said he felt no need to inform his fellow Republican Party leaders about what Roy had done.........“I couldn’t see at that point what difference it made,” said Webster.............He made a mistake, he acknowledged it, he admitted to me he had done it and he resigned.”
[url=http://pinetreewatchdog.org/2012/05/09/officials-use-of-us-and-gop-funds... Tree Watchdog[/url]
Webster characterizes the issue as "he [Roy]made a mistake". Working in a trusted position and diverting funds to yourself is a bit more than a "mistake". The law refers to this as "embezzlement"! I could care less that Webster is the party chairman. I care mainly that he had knowldge that this went on and did not disclose it to the authorities. I don't care whether the people involved in this have R, D or whatever after their name. Stealing is wrong! The story says that Roy "diverted" (fancy word for stole!) money to himself without authorization, and later paid it back, calling it a "loan" as others in the story have called it. For the unitiated, when handling others money, in a position of trust, you do not in any way take even one penny for yourself. the people in positions of authority, who knew about this, had an obligation to disclose it. Now Hancock County has unwitttingly employed a person I would not want handling my money, because of the close-mouthed handling of the issue. I despise corruption any and every place I see it. We have no possibility of cleaning up politics if we cannot punish those caught doing malfeasance.
Nobody has yet answered Apollo's question, about Roy being up on stage advising Tweed this weekend. If it's true, what's up with that??
Phil Roy was one of the election wardens. I am not sure who arranged to have him do this. He was the one on Saturday night that passed the county chairs the first package of ballots.
Traci G: "Phil Roy was one of the election wardens. I am not sure who arranged to have him do this." How can we find out? There must be some formality to the process, and whoever did should on the hook if they knew Mr. Roy did not have sufficient integrity.
Woodcanoe: I agree with what you're saying, but I also understand why Mr. Webster and Commissioner McGrane didn't report the alleged crime. I'm not saying it's right. I'm curious as to Hancock County's hiring of Mr. Roy. According to the article, Comm. McGrane said they didn't contact his WIA program; I wonder if Maine GOP gave them a recommendation?
Webster characterizes the issue as "he [Roy]made a mistake". Working in a trusted position and diverting funds to yourself is a bit more than a "mistake". The law refers to this as "embezzlement"!
All of which makes Webster an accessory to the act, does it not?
[quote="jim cooncat"]...There must be some formality to the process, and whoever did should on the hook if they knew Mr. Roy did not have sufficient integrity...[/quote]
Rep. Heather Siroki was the official election warden, a position that’s appointed by the convention chair. While convention organizers had talked with Roy about balloting procedures used in 2008, they didn’t want Roy to run the tallying. He was deputized to appease the Ron Paul campaign. He was there guy.
Without commenting on the specifics of this story, I do know that shenanigans like this happen more often in the Not-For-Profit world than many people realize. NFPs tend to have the belief that everyone who works for them is completely committed to the organization's mission - and, for either that reason, naivete or budget constraints, fail to put adequate financial control mechanisms in place.
Not surprisingly, NFPs prefer to deal with this type of situation quietly once it's been discovered.
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