Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

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charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

They work under a contract with DHS...that means they have to follow state rules. If they wanted to become a private adoption agency...I agree with you Bat. However, since they are not...they must follow state regs.

Gerald E. Thibodeau
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="charlotte"]Since Catholic Charities give kids up for adoption to parents who follow different faiths other than Catholic...what metric do we use to use for parental merit?

Each faith has their own set of moral rules...

Do we deny a muslim family because they do not believe in Christ? I am sure they are not going to repent about that....[/quote]

Charlotte, you say you are a Catholic, but you are in denial of basic teachings of the Catholic Church. For example, you advocate homosexual sex.

The Church teaches that homosexual sex is a grave evil and it does not wish to place children in the care of people who, in their belief, are living in a continuous state of grave evil. They believe that placing children with homosexual couples is very harmful to children and they cannot justify sacrificing some children for the sake of helping others.

This action is applauded by practicing Catholics. Heretics are upset.

charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Gerald, I am no longer a Catholic. I switched faiths a few months ago. I find the Catholic church very hypocritical. They have no problem...pushing off priests that are pedophiles (even letting many keep their pensions)...

But no gays, oh no...they hurt the family. I follow Christ, not a bunch of men who seem to make very poor judgement calls.

Gerald E. Thibodeau
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="charlotte"]They work under a contract with DHS...that means they have to follow state rules. If they wanted to become a private adoption agency...I agree with you Bat. However, since they are not...they must follow state regs.[/quote]

Are you saying private agencies can discriminate because of sexual orientation???

Gerald E. Thibodeau
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="charlotte"]Gerald, I am no longer a Catholic. I switched faiths a few months ago. [/quote]

Then why don't you concern yourself with your new church and stop being critical of other religions?

charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Gerald I think private organizations do not have to comply with state adoption regulations.

As for making comments...free speech.

Sorry, I have just as much right to criticize an organization that handles public state adoptions...thanks.

Michelle Anderson
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="charlotte"]Do we deny a muslim family because they do not believe in Christ? I am sure they are not going to repent about that....[/quote]

If a denomination believes that the grace of salvation is given only to those who place their trust in the blood of Christ, then I would think it would be irresponsible to place a child with a muslim family, since that would preclude the child's soul from being saved.

Gerald E. Thibodeau
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="Michelle Anderson"][quote="charlotte"]Do we deny a muslim family because they do not believe in Christ? I am sure they are not going to repent about that....[/quote]

If a denomination believes that a the grace of salvation is given only to those who place their trust in the blood of Christ, then I would think it would be irresponsible to place a child with a muslim family, since that would preclude the child's soul from being saved.[/quote]

While the Catholic Church teaches that as Scripture states, Jesus gave Peter (the rock on which He built His Church) the keys to the kingdom and told him whatever he bound or loosened on earth would be bound or loosened in heaven and that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church until the end times -- the Catholic Church teaches that it is possible for individuals to obtain salvation outside the Catholic or Christian faith.

charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

So just get those gays...

Nice.

Michelle Anderson
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="Gerald E. Thibodeau]..the Catholic Church teaches that it is possible for individuals to obtain salvation outside the Catholic or Christian faith.[/quote]

wow! That's a sharp turn in doctrine. When did that start?

Gerald E. Thibodeau
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="Michelle Anderson"][quote="Gerald E. Thibodeau...the Catholic Church teaches that it is possible for individuals to obtain salvation outside the Catholic or Christian faith.[/quote]

wow! That's a sharp turn in doctrine. When did that start?[/quote]

It's been in Catholic literature that my family has had for nearly fifty years. Pope John Paul II also discussed it couple of years ago.

Actually, I resigned as a board member of a non-profit organization (about the time of John Paul II's statements) because some its Protestant members insisted that all board members accept the belief that you had to be a Christian to obtain salvation, a belief I could not accept.

The Catholic Catechism states for example:
"841 The plan of salvation includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Perhaps other can add statements on the subject by John Paul II or other sources.

Mary1
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="Gerald E. Thibodeau"][quote="Michelle Anderson"]Separation of Church and state will only be achieved if and when churches stop taking advantage of the country's non-profit status. If they pay taxes like a business or a person, they will not be beholden to the government's regulations.[/quote]

Any agency dealing with adoptions under state contract would have to comply with state law that prohibits discrimination against sexual orientation regardless of whether they are non-profit wouldn't they?[/quote]

Yeah, I don't think being a non-profit has anything to do with it. The boy scouts are a non-profit and they still refuse to elect gay leaders.

IMHO
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="charlotte"]Gerald, I am no longer a Catholic. I switched faiths a few months ago. I find the Catholic church very hypocritical. [/quote]
Glad you finally found your true home wherever that may be. It may fill your needs better, especially if it is simply a faith that allows you to do whatever suites your desires and "feels good".

Hope it makes you happy. I know it will be good for the Catholic Church. It doesn't need enemies who claim to be Catholic but bash it every chance they get. At least your anti-Catholic rants now will be less hypocritical.

Naran
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

I must say, it's always so uplifting and refreshing to read the kind words from all these "True" Christians.

So loving, compassionate, understanding, and Brotherly of you. Your gentle encouragement of Charlotte's spiritual quest is truly inspirational.

:roll:

"Lockstep = No Questions or Comments or Theological Dissension Allowed."

Charlotte, if this is what you were putting up with every Sunday, I don't blame you a bit. I hope you find another church that is TRULY Christian, instead of coldly and conveniently so.

Michelle Anderson
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="Gerald E. Thibodeau"][quote="Gerald E. Thibodeau...the Catholic Church teaches that it is possible for individuals to obtain salvation outside the Catholic or Christian faith.[/quote]

Perhaps other can add statements on the subject by John Paul II or other sources.[/quote]

Well, someone needs to update Catholic.org, which says,

[quote]In order to be saved, all persons who have attained the use of reason must believe explicitly that God exist and that he rewards the good and punishes the wicked; in practice they must also believe in the mysteries of the Blessed Trinity and the Incarnation.
By the Blessed Trinity we mean one and the same God in three divine persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
By the Incarnation is meant that the Son of God, retaining His divine nature, took to Himself a human nature, that is, a body and soul like ours. [/quote]

I'm dismayed, Gerald, that the church has apparently disgarded the matter of salvation. I'm digging around, because I find it so difficult to believe.

Gerald E. Thibodeau
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Michelle,

Quoting from the Catholic Dictionary accompanying the Catholic Bible, Confraternity Text, [u][b]published in 1962[/b][/u], given to my wife and I by my dearly departed mother-in-law who was a Protestant at the time, but later converted to Catholicism:

[u]On the Doctrine of Outside the Church, No Salvation:[/u] ...Catholic theologians have commonly held that many of those who are outside the Church through no fault of their own can be saved by doing God's will as they see it ...

I believe that when John Paul II spoke on the matter he was correcting some Vatican official who had stated only Catholics or Christians could be saved.

After all, God has something to say about it, doesn't He?

IMHO
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

"Lockstep = No Questions or Comments or Theological Dissension Allowed."

Questions, comments or theological dissension are one thing, repeated insults are another matter, and invite similar response from us less-than-perfect christians.

Naran
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Sorry, but I don't believe Charlotte has ever insulted Catholics in what I've read. She has repeatedly stated disagreement with the way the Church treats gay people. That's not an insult, it's a difference of opinion.

I think your comments to her on learning she has departed the Church were a cheap shot, and if your overall agenda is to welcome and keep fellow Catholics in the fold, didn't serve the process.

Gerald E. Thibodeau
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="Naran" ...:roll: "Lockstep = No Questions or Comments or Theological Dissension Allowed."

Charlotte, if this is what you were putting up with every Sunday, I don't blame you a bit. I hope you find another church that is TRULY Christian, instead of coldly and conveniently so.[/quote]

From one Catholic basher to another. You can always find Naran on treads trashing the Catholic Church. Don't these people have their own churches to be concerned with?

charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Trashing the Catholic Church and disagreeing the church are two very different things. Shame on you Gerald.

It was a difficult decision to leave the Catholic Church. I have taken my religious beliefs very seriously...and leaving was due to my sincere difficulty with what the Catholic leaders decisions have been. I have every right to voice my opinions...clearly you do.

You bash me everytime you get a chance...calling me a heretic, or telling me to butt out.

Grow up.

Gerald E. Thibodeau
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

[quote="charlotte"]Trashing the Catholic Church and disagreeing the church are two very different things. ...[/quote]

Could have fooled me. :shock:

I am sure all are relieved that you have given up on your efforts to have the Catholic Church bless abortion and sodomy. You should have little difficulty finding a church that does both.

Domino
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

The poor oppressed Catholic Church. The "My way or the highway" attitude must be attracting PLENTY of people into the fold. Maybe some good will come from this.

charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Again, going after me. Very Christlike Gerald...

Oh well, God will judge...not me.

Domino...yep, I feel the same way. They are running low on priests, shutting down churches....their efforts are doing them very well....I am sorry to see it actually.

The Distributist
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

The open bigotry of the tolerance crowd toward religion is ironic.

charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Dist...if that is directed towards me..

point out where I said anything that was bigoted?...Please....

I think most priests/nun are hard working, gifted...inspiring people. I have had the privilage to know many...and I have found most, wonderful.

The church leaders have done much to damage their own reputation and following...That is what I disagree with. Their inaction on the pedophile scandal, and continued pension support (funded by parishoners money) of convicted pedophiles is offensive. Then they turn around and focus on gays, or gay families in the same breath...calling them the "down fall of society"...

And you wonder why I am dismayed with the church...Yeah, they have been such leaders....not.

Michael Vaughan
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Just to clarify...

So in your opinion, they did ok on their handling of the pederast scandal, but not the pedophile scandal?

charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Michael...not this crap again. I think they did a poor job protecting kids. Period...

And you, do you think they did a good job Mike?

Michael Vaughan
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NO

And the "crap" is the word semantics used by a certain special interest group to deflect attention from the real issue. In this case "gay" priests raping boys.

charlotte
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

There...the truth according to such a specialist on the subject.

I could not disagree more, but you know that. Look at the facts on pedophiles or men who abuse kids under the legal age (whatever word floats your boat)...many in society are married white men. Go figure?

Anywho...Let's agree to disagree. Clearly, you seem fixed on blaming gay men. Fine...pull all the gay men out...and like in the Boy scouts...there are still plenty of pedos...who seemingly get in.

Interesting...

Naran
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Gay issues force Catholic Charities to halt adoptions

Sorry, Gerald, you're incorrect. I don't bash all Catholics, just those on here I see being stiff-necked and blind to the inequities and wrongdoing of their Church administration, and in so doing bashing someone like Charlotte, who has expressed her spiritual struggles with the decision to leave the Church.

You're blaming Charlotte instead of the people you should be blaming. It's called a scapegoat.

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