Get Out While You Still Can!

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PressMan247
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From 45 minutes down the

From 45 minutes down the turnpike, I'm confident the gas savings are small. But if you were buying a $1200 TV or a $26,000 tractor, the savings would certainly be worth the drive.

Bruce Libby
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If one is buying a $1200 TV I

If one is buying a $1200 TV I am not sure we want you here anyway,so long !

PressMan247
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NH is #1... Maine is almost

NH is #1... Maine is almost as bad as CA or NY.
https://www.freedominthe50states.org/

Bruce Libby
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Please we get it.

Please we get it.
Stop insulting the intelligence of freedom loving people of Maine.
Yes, I am free to live where I choose ,the ultimate freedom.

PressMan247
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NH is number 1.

NH is number 1.
Maine they rank 22. Guess that keeps you in the top half.
https://wallethub.com/edu/state-taxpayer-roi-report/3283/

johnw
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The brain trust in Augusta

The brain trust in Augusta has proposed a $15 per carton tax increase on cigarettes.....NH store owners vote yes on the proposal.....

Gerald Weinand
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pmconusa is completely wrong

pmconusa is completely wrong about land ownership in northern Maine. Approximately 90% of forest land is privately owned.

Gerald Weinand
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A challenge you pmconusa to

I challenge you, pmconusa, to provide actual data that shows the average wage for a teacher in Brunswick is $60,000 a year.

But I am curious as to what you think a person with a graduate degree in education should be paid.

Bruce Libby
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Ahhh this has the makings of

Ahhh this has the makings of an old fashion (before AMG death) popcorn moment !

Please GW keep in mind he does have the truth !

Ugenetoo
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90% for now, GW.

90% for now, GW.
With the new national monument/national park land grab scheme in place, that will change rather quickly.

Bruce Libby
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Please Ugenetoo do not deter

Please Ugenetoo do not deter GW from this possible entaining thread battle.
The question is: Will pour frequent drive buy get run over by the truth ?

Roger Ek
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"pmconusa is completely wrong

"pmconusa is completely wrong about land ownership in northern Maine. Approximately 90% of forest land is privately owned."

Technically, that is true, but when the paper industry was driven out of Maine they did as a defeated army does. They left behind a scorched earth. All prior "paper company land" is contaminated with conservation easements to prevent any development. In Washington County alone there is a contiguous parcel of 19 townships where no lodge, hunting camp, boat rental service, restaurant, general store or even a gas station will ever be built. They cut the economic heart out of Washington County.

When Plum Creek bought the old Scott Paper land and wanted to sell some lots on the lakes, the environmental industry extorted 99% of the land Plum Creek owned as a conservation easement. They did allow one camp per year in each township. That is not even the replacement rate for the camps that burn down, collapse from the snow or are abandoned. The agreement results in a long term net loss of camps in Piscataquis County. I have maps of Maine showing our industrial forests over the years. As of 2016, they are all gone. Not one paper mill in Maine owns an acre of Maine land today. Fraser was the last hold out and they went broke trying to keep it.

I know; Irving has some old Fraser land, but my facts above are true.

Matt
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Roger is wrong on plum creek.

Roger is wrong on plum creek. Big surprise.

I'm no fan of how environmentalists have framed the paper companies--the forest products industry are the biggest reason why Maine's woodlands are largely intact--but Plum Creek was/is a different animal. They are a REIT--a real estate investment trust. Not really a timber company anymore.

When they wanted to develop their land, they needed to get a variance first, because it was zoned for wood cutting. And that's what it was valued for when they bought it. They were asking LURC to wave the magic wand and increase the value of their land exponentially. The easement was a bargaining chip. They got PAID to put half (not 99%--that's a lie) of their holdings in an easement (about $25 million, if I remember correctly), which would allow them to keep doing exactly what they had been doing: cutting trees. We should all be so lucky to get that kind of deal. If anyone got extorted, it was the organizations who paid up, because they were opposed to Plum Creek building resorts on Lily Bay at the mouth of the Roach, dropping houses all along the east outlet, selling off shoreline to a bunch of remote ponds--it was a giant project.

Always fun to see Ek cut and paste his false and tired bromides...

Roger Ek
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Inorder to build one camp per

In order to build one camp per township each year, Plum creek had to give up control of 99% of their land. That is a fact. One camp per year is less than the number we lose to abandonment fire and weather. Northern Maine is losing camps faster than they are being gained. It's a net loss and it is intentional.

"We reject the idea of private property."
Peter Berle, President of the National Audobon Society

Bruce Libby
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Didn't PC after the deal

Didn't PC after the deal retain developement rights to some of their land ?
PC is now owned by another entity who are using the land for lumbering.
I do not believe they sold the developement rights that were in play.
This is a hard argument to sell i.e. loss of camps which historically were on
leases that would never be reprecated today.

On the other hand Matt seems to not like the idea of what PC wanted to develope which were recreational in nature.
As it turns out it would seem that relacing camos that were lost cmpared to what was proposed the new devleopement
was more advanteous .

Matt
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Looks like roger believes in

Looks like roger believes in alternative facts also.

Here are the actual facts: PC owns about 900k acres in Maine. They got PAID to put about 460K into easement, which they can still cut. in return, they got 17k acres re-zoned for development. Period. They can build a couple of resorts and about nine hundred house lots, and have 30 years to do it (your "one camp per year per township" number).

Ugenetoo
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PC owns and pays taxes on

PC ownd and paid taxes on that 900k.
They should have been able to do pretty much what they wanted with it.

Bruce Libby
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Ugenetoo

Ugenetoo
I agree and always have when this issue is brought up.

Matt
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They paid woodland rate tax

They paid woodland rate tax on it. And they continue to do so.

Do you two have any idea what you are talking about?

PressMan247
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The Rangeley and Moosehead

The Rangeley and Moosehead Lake Regions could use a little private economic development in the form of million dollar lakefront homes. The people who build these homes, pay a lot of property tax, employ builders and sub-contractors and then dine out in local restaurants. They buy boats from local marinas who then service and store them all winter. All you have to do is look at the Lakes Region of New Hampshire to see how this works. Business people over here, can't find enough help. But alas, the poor SOB's north of the Volvo line in Maine can continue to suck government hind teat.

I was basically driven out of Maine. I didn't want to leave, but poor decisions on the local and state level cost our family close to $500,000 over a 6 or 7 year period. I reluctantly moved to NH after hearing my state sentator cut off a person testifying in front of him who tried to make a ME/NH comparison. "Move to NH if you like it over there," he said. That's when I realized he might be the smartest man in Augusta. Here I am, 3 years later and could not be happier.

If you live away from the coast of Maine, and you feel the economy sucks, and you just can't get ahead, despite how hard you work... Take a look at the following counties in NH; Carroll, Belknap, Coos and Grafton. You'll find the similar, rural pace of life you find in most of Maine, without all the BS and taxes.

Anyone interested in learning more can message me here at the AMG website.

Bruce Libby
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This is what you have taught

This is what you have taught me Pressman ... .
First you don't think much of those above the Volvo line.

You have reinforced all us who live below the Volvo line aren't as stupid as others think.

Your choice of places to move to in NH seem to indicate there is probably similar concerns in Southern ,NH. .

That senator was smart enough to know we wouldn't be losing much and believed in freedom of choice.

Glad your happy.

PressMan247
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I think you have my motives

I think you have my motives wrong Bruce. I love Maine... but Maine didn't love me anymore. The part of Maine I love most is north of Cumberland County.

I don't think you're stupid... but there's 12 or 13 counties in desperate need of real jobs.

I wouldn't want to live in Southern NH, anymore than I would want to live in Southern ME.

I am happy and I guess ranting on amg is a form of therapy for me. I'll be in the pine tree state tomorrow spending a little money.

Roger Ek
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For those who slept through

For those who slept through arithmetic class, 17,000 is 1.8% of 900,000 which was my point. The math still works out to a net loss of camps over the next 30 years. What some may not understand is that the progressives and enviro-nazis don't want ANY camps built in Northern Maine.

First we had the ˇNIMBYs” (Not In My Back Yard)
Then we had the ˇLULUs” (Locally Undesirable Land Use)
Maine fishermen had to contend with ˇCRAP” (Coastal Residents Against Pollution)
Now we have ˇABANANAˇ (Against Building Anything New Anywhere Near Anything)
Lately we have CAVE people. (Citizens Against Virtually Everything.)

They are all Watermelons.
(Green on the outside and Red on the inside)

Bruce Libby
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I might have them wrong

I might have them wrong however your words speak differently.

Ironically the imo perpetuation of the "two Maine theory" ( A tired Anguish King favorite) is a roadblock
to change in and by itself.

Roger Ek
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PressMan247 said,

PressMan247 said,

" I love Maine... but Maine didn't love me anymore."

That sounds like the Republican party six years ago. There was a great purge of conservatives. That left Maine Republicans with the "go along to get along" bunch and the progressives on the left. They didn't love conservatives any more and conservatives became only about a quarter of the party after the purge. Then there was an "oops" moment among the donor class and they began talking to conservatives again. The rebuilding process has begun. At 9 Higgins Street it is suddenly OK to point the fickle finger of fate at Democrat corruption after six years of playing ostrich and hiding their heads in the sand.

I have a NH license plate hanging in my garage. It says,

LT EK

Live Free or Die

47 years ago today I arrived in Vietnam to fly helicopter gun ships, at night, in the rain, in the Mekong Delta. 13 months later I came home all in one piece and I never lost a crewman. In February or March of 1971 I was sitting with about 30 mercenaries on a dike in Cambodia and eating rice and fish with my fingers from a bowl like a wok. These were a bunch of very rough individuals. They were paid on a piecework basis. Enough said about that. Their leader said they wanted to ask a question. "What are you doing here?"

I pointed to my helicopter. They understood that, but they sad I must be a very rich man with a house and a car. "What are you doing HERE?" These guys were Kampucheans, Khmer, Nung, Hmong, Chom, Chinese from Red China and so bad they were exiled from Red China and a few Montagnards. They all spoke Vietnamese, and some Mandarin along with their own languages. A few spoke French. They still wanted to know why I was there. My crew was looking on and they also must have wondered why I was over there with the mercs.

I told the mercs, "It is about freedom. American want everybody to be free, all countries and all people. That is why I am here." There was much chatter up and down the dike as this was translated into each language. Their leader said, "They have come to a decision. They are going to call you the helicopter freedom guy."

I gave them a thumbs up and said, "That is a good name. Seawolf 25, the Helicopter Freedom Guy."

I went back over to my crew. They wondered why I had done that. I said, the rice and fish were boiled. It was safe to eat. Was it good? No, but it was protein and carbs. If we were down and could not get out of there, those guys were the people who could get us back down to the Mekong River because we were a very long way up river into "Indian Country".

I have pictures of all this stuff.

Why do I stay on AMG? I stay to bear witness. Even on these dank pages, it is still about freedom. I was never a SEAL, but I did fly them around in helicopters in several countries. I guess you could say I was a SEAL's taxi driver and when they need to depart a place they want to do it RIGHT NOW! They don't step in like you would into a car. They dive in from both sides of the helicopter. Look up the HH-1K on Google. That was the smallest Huey with the biggest engine and it had a special 300 foot hoist for hauling people up through triple canopy jungle. It was a hot rod Huey. Most people who flew Hueys have never heard of the K-Model Huey. There were a grand total of four in Vietnam. I flew all four.

This date makes me reminisce. Pardon my rambling.

Matt
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Roger,

Roger,

What part of half of that 900k is not included in the easement don't you understand?

Roger Ek
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Less than 2%. It could well

Less than 2%. It could well be around 17,000 acres scattered around in over 40 townships. That is only 72% of one square mile. There are 640 aces to a square mile. Why would a company give up the development rights to over 98% of their land? Because they finally realized that was the best they could do in Maine and why every single paper company sold their land in Maine.

Mead bought the "old Oxford" in Rumford. There was a great variety of paper machines making a good mix of products, a good labor force with a good honest contract, timberlands and a good road network. What more could an old established paper company want? They owned the mill for six months and it went onto the market. Several various investment companies have owned it since and picked it dry. Mead found out quickly about LURC, the DEP and the Maine Forest Service. They had not done their due diligence. They did not inquire why most of the other mills had sold off their timberlands. Mead could not manage their investment efficiently. There is the one word as to why they sold. "Efficiently". No board of directors is going to allow a company to have an asset they cannot control.

Fraser was the last holdout. They sold their land. The environmental industry now controls much more than 99% of the former paper company lands in Maine. Jeff Gifford's bill to abolish LURC actually made LURC bigger, stronger and meaner. Somebody should write a book about all this. I would be happy to edit it before publication. Maybe if I ever retire, I'll write it. I was elected to the Verona planning board as the Maine Land Use Planning Law which included LURC was just coming in. The towns were horrified. The paper companies were horrified. They thought it was the beginning of the end. They were right. The 40th anniversary was a huge celebration for the environmental industry. They knew that LUPC was coming and that the counties would never get their land back. There should be a book.

Bruce Libby
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Am I wrong that PC today is

Am I wrong that PC today is not the same owners as original PC and lept the PC name.

Roger Ek
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Are you talking about

Are you talking about Political Correctness or Prentiss & Carlysle?

Bruce Libby
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Prentiss

delete

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