Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Sunday, February 11, 2007

Rudy Giuliani addressed a potentially troublesome issue with conservative voters, saying his policies as mayor to get handguns off the street helped reduce crime in New York.

"I used gun control as mayor," he said at a news conference Saturday during a swing through California. But "I understand the Second Amendment. I understand the right to bear arms."

[url=http://www.townhall.com/News/NewsArticle.aspx?contentGUID=746cf61e-f41f-...

Dennis
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

"I used gun control as mayor," he said at a news conference Saturday during a swing through California. But "I understand the Second Amendment. I understand the right to bear arms."

Sure he "understands" the 2nd Ammendment and the right to bear arms. So do Hillary and all the other lefties. They will also do everything in their power to eleminate it. We need a candidate who will [b]support[/b] them.

DalekMagi
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Adolf Hitler agrees, gun confiscation reduces crime. Just look at how little crime the Jews could cause after he stole all the guns. They couldn't break any of his laws, like "eating White Bread!"

Gun control is evil, and anyone who supports it, and talks about it "helping" anyone is full of crap and has no business running American government.

Swampy
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

IMO Guliani will never be president because of his position on firearms. He is an enemy of the 2nd amendment and should be treated as such. Is he worse than McCain on this? I don't know. But if the Republicans run one or the other in 08, firearms owners should be on notice. They want to take away your rights.

DalekMagi
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Giuliani makes McCain look like Wayne LaPierre by comparison, which should scare anyone who cares about their 2nd Amendment rights.

Bigshooter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Anyone who believes that disarming only law abiding people while criminals go about their daily business, needs their head examined. I would rather see an extremely anti-gun president get elected than someone who pretends to be pro-gun and subtly acts anti-gun. Look at who is more effective for the leftist whackos.

I'll give you an example: When our local lefty (and Sarah Brady's best boy) Ethan Strimling calls for complete disarmament, confiscation, abandonment, seizure and forfeiture of legal firearms, the hearing room is packed and angry people show up to kill the bill. When other politicians slowly chip away at only one gun or another, with each piece of legislation having little immediate felt impact (or so the general perception is) there are seldom more than a dozen people protesting the passing of the bill and it stands a good chance of passing. This constant erosion we have been allowing for the last 70 years is slowly choking us and it is nearing time for a solution.

I personally think it would be better to let them try to ban everything and finally get the issue to the Supreme Court where it belongs anyway. I want the next few generations to have the chance to live like free men and not subjects and it will take our generation to fight for them. The gun issue should be the third rail of republican politics - You touch my guns and you NEVER get elected. Lets leave the loony gun grabbers for the democrats and let it be their loosing issue.

Peter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Come on now...if a City is so violent that the people are afraid to walk down the street in fear of being shot.
What would you all suggest as a way of dealing with this?

Bigshooter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Gee, I don't know Peter; maybe get the criminals off the streets? That sounds like a good start.

Telling people like you and I that we can't have a firearm for protection on our person certainly doesn't affect the crime rate in a positive manor because we are not criminals in the first place. The bad guy certainly doesn't care about breaking a gun law if he is going to go as far as shooting someone. That’s just plain foolish.

Disarming ME so I have to be a helpless victim does nothing to make the place safer, it only makes ME easy pickings for the guy who doesn't bother to "ask permission" to put a firearm in their pocket in the first place. This is really very simple stuff but it takes serious thought rather than simple emotionalism.

Peter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Rudy is credited with cleaning up New York
Please explain how this happened

knucklehead
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Rudy was accused of everything from racial profiling to outright ethnic cleansing while he was cleaning up NY. One of the most ingenious things he did was close hot streets to through traffic.

One of the dumbest thigns he did was locate his emergency command/control center in the shadow of the WTC's so they could fall on it right when he needed it most.

Please explain to [b]me[/b] how [b]any[/b] laws affect lawless people. Increased penalties for firearm use in a crime is one thing, but laws aimed solely at firearms affect only law abiding citizens.

It's kinda that simple.

Swampy
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

For starters he put a lot more cops to work. Then he put those cops into the subways and high crime neighborhoods. He focused law enforcement on crime at the street level. That meant enforcing the laws of NYC. This made the streets safer and ergo the citizens of NY felt safer. It also helped that he had hired a top notch chief of police who cleaned house.
This took years to do.
I agree that his approach to cleaning up the city was right. His take on gun control however is not. If you want a couple of examples of cities with big time gun control and out of control crime look at Boston and Washington DC.

The best gun control is a firm grip and a steady aim.

Bigshooter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Sorry Peter. I stopped paying attention to that Zoo 20+ years ago. I can't tell you how for sure he "cleaned it up" but I can tell you that not allowing ME to protect myself while visiting NYC had nothing to do with it. Let's use a little common sense here.

From what I understand he got rid of most of the "seedy" business ventures in that area, those that attracted the criminal element. When you get rid of the things that attract the bad guys to the area, maybe the bad guys just don't come around en masse anymore. That logic sounds realistic to me. No influx of bad guys, no influx of bad guys doing bad things. [i]Simple stuff for even my feeble mind.[/i]

What makes absolutely no sense at all is to credit disallowing law abiding ([b]LAW ABIDING = Not Criminals[/b]) people to have the ability to protect themselves against bad guys with having any positive effect on the crime rate. It has had the exact opposite effect everywhere else it has been implemented.

Like I said before, this is pretty simple stuff but you need to think about it a little to "get it."

Is this making sense to you yet?

bryce
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

"When other politicians slowly chip away at only one gun or another,"- like George Smith, when he carried Angus's water a few years ago?

JIMV
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

[quote="DalekMagi"]Giuliani makes McCain look like Wayne LaPierre by comparison, which should scare anyone who cares about their 2nd Amendment rights.[/quote]

But McCain is the enemy of the entire Constitution.

JIMV
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

[quote="Peter"]Come on now...if a City is so violent that the people are afraid to walk down the street in fear of being shot.
What would you all suggest as a way of dealing with this?[/quote]

You misread the situation. The issue was not that the gun restrictions had any effect on the crime rate, it didn't and never does. What happened was they began applying the existing laws about committing a crime with a gun to the perps. They locked them up and crime went way down..

duh...

Mike Travers
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Peter,
For my personal edification, would you please explain the difference between a "privilege" and a "right"?

JIMV
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

[quote="Mike Travers"]Peter,
For my personal edification, would you please explain the difference between a "privilege" and a "right"?[/quote]

A privilege is anything the left wants to take away and a right is anything they desire to keep.

Peter
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lets be honest

what exactly did he do that STOP you from owning guns?

JIMV
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Re: lets be honest

[quote="Peter"]what exactly did he do that STOP you from owning guns?[/quote]

NY has something called the Sulivan Act which dates back to the 20's and limits gun ownership and carry a good bit. In addition, NY is a lot like Mass in issuing permits, if you are a beautiful person, no problem. If you are a cab driver, forget it.

So, while few in the city own guns legally, many, many own guns illegally on the idea that surviving an attack is better than not.

Remember the granny in the wheel chair who defended herself a few years ago and the city's efforts to prosecute her.

It is a tenet of faith to much of the left that passing gun control laws will have some effect on violent crime. It does, crime goes up. What Rudy realized was that talking about gun control in his socialist city while stopping the plea bargaining and looking the other way when real criminals were caught using guns, DID result in a big reduction in crime. It seems the repeat offenders had a hard time repeating from Rykers Island.

He did about nothing new with gun control but he did something almost unkown in NYC. He enforced the laws on armed crime...

Who's a thunk it?

Bigshooter
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Re: lets be honest

[quote="Peter"]what exactly did he do that STOP you from owning guns?[/quote]

He did nothing to stop [b]ME[/b] from owning a gun because I don't answer to him. He did stop LOTS of other law-abiding people from having the ability (ie RIGHT) to defend themselves though. I have understood the OBLIGATION I have to protect my family and myself for several years. It is not the responsibility of anyone but me. My family is important enough to me to take that OBGLIGATION serious. Anyone else can gamble with theirs, but I don't play that.

Lets do a little experiment; You apply for a NYC concealed Weapons Permit. Let me know when you have the ability to lawfully defend yourself while visiting that paradise. For bonus points, let me know how the results affected the crime rate in a positive manor.

Disarming YOU, while trying to lawfully obtain a "permit" to defend yourself and your family, cannot have a positive impact in reducing crime.

Mike Travers
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Peter,
The Constitution says "shall not be [b]infringed[/b]" for a reason. It says not just "keep" but [b]"bear"[/b] for a reason. Many people with carry permits don't carry because laws have made it inconvenient. Want to pick your child up at school? Don't have your gun when you do. Need to swing by the post office? Don't have your gun with you. Want to meet someone at a bar? Even if you personally don't drink at all, you're not supposed to have it with you. Keep in mind that, in order to get a permit, there's a background check to determine if you can be trusted. After passing that, you [b]still[/b] can't be trusted in certain places which are on your beaten path. After awhile it becomes so inconvenient that people leave them home. You now have a right that's been infringed upon so much that you can't reasonably exercise it. But you knew that, didn't you?

Peter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

So he enforced laws already on the books...
Interesting how the same folks want enforcement of existing laws cherry pick
the old enforce the laws that dont apply to me crowd....

Mike Travers
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

For future reference, I want enforcement of laws that:

[b]#1[/b] Are Constitutional.

#2 Make sense.

#3 Work.

I hope that clears up any confusion for you.

Peter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

They worked, make sense, and have yet to be overturned.
Rudy used all the tools at his disposal to clean up a city.

Question for you all....Are you opposed to the Patriot act?

Bigshooter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

[img]http://www.mggraphics.net/icon/lala.gif[/img]

Sorry Peter, you blew it. You just passed the Troll test. You have not responded to anything brought-up by anyone, and just continue to throw more foolish, baseless statements out for more fuel on your silly fire. I am sorry I wasted time responding as if you really were interested or wanted to have a conversation. I don't have any interest in your little troll baiting exercise.

Have fun guys. Don't feed the trolls.

Peter
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

its an honest question.

Swampy
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Hear! Hear! Big Shooter.

JIMV
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

[quote="Peter"]They worked, make sense, and have yet to be overturned.
Rudy used all the tools at his disposal to clean up a city.

Question for you all....Are you opposed to the Patriot act?[/quote]

Something you have to understand is that Rudy did not pass any significant new gun laws while mayor. Every thing he did to reduce crime revolved around simply enforcing laws that were already on the books but ignored.

Suddenly, if you committed a crime with a gun and were caught, you actually went to jail, regardless of your unfortunate childhood or skin color.

In addition, most career criminals do not get caught for violent crimes but for more minor violations and Rudy began prosecuting these as well. Suddenly potentially violent career criminals were filling up the jails instead of the hood.

Mainelion
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

Peter,

Do you believe that the police have an obligation to protect you and your family?

Tom C
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

I know it's not Guilani's fault, but I hate driving through New York State. I have to think about what I have in my trunk before I venture into either Mass or New York.

...---...
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Giuliani: Gun Control Helped Lower Crime

STOP---

Back to Guiliani and Mccain

I know rudy is a gun grabber no matter what he says so he's dead to me as a candidate

but what did Mccain do other than that stupid Mccain/Feingold campaign finance

thing to pissoff the pro gun crowd?

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