Government by intimidation

48 posts / 0 new
Last post
pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
Government by intimidation

On September 1 the ban, with exceptions, of the use of plastic bags will go into effect on September 1. When it was first proposed I wrote the Town Council and advised them that the city charter, their authority to govern, does not give them the power to ban anything. I also advised them that the merchants, who were the target of this unlawful ban, could avoid its application simply by selling the bag for 1 cent and allowing the customer then to bag his own groceries. This is the tack taken by all the supermarkets in England. I also advised them they would look ridiculous if their intention was to ban the use of plastic for packaging because it is harmful to the environment because just about everything in your market or grocery store is now encased in plastic.

They did not heed my message and on September 1 the ban will go into effect and plastic bags at our local Hanaford and Shaw's will disappear, replaced by the old fashioned paper sack. These bags are make from wood pulp and no doubt 99% of them will end up in our landfill as did the majority of our plastic bags. I don't know if the loss of employment in the plastic bag industry will be offset by additional employment in the paper bag industry but it will put pressure on a renewable resource, trees, as opposed to a non-reproducible resource, crude oil, the majority of which we buy from other countries.

Last week I spoke with one of the managers of Hanaford and explained the above scenario in hopes they would not bow to the actions of the city Council. It was like talking to the wall as they would not even consider the response of the English. They have been intimidated to such an extent they refuse even to act in self defense. We have become puppets on strings and when we try to regain control we are flaunted by the courts in that we have no standing and the court's position, the Congress and the Legislature can do no wrong. Why, because it is the Congress and the Legislature that determines who gets on the courts and only their supporters can make it.

Melvin Udall
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 5 min ago
Joined: 05/01/2002 - 12:01am
I don't know where to start.

I don't know where to start. How could anyone resist your kind suggestions?

Perhaps you should contact your State delegation for help.

Just kidding.

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 56 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
"They did not heed my message

"They did not heed my message "

I am shocked, I tell you SHOCKED !!!

Oh my goodness , what about the trees , we saved them years ago but now we are going to cut them down for bags.
Did you tell them about the trees ?

What will children have to play in when they are all gone?

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
By your response I don't know

By your response I don't know whether you agree the Town Council has the authority to ban the use of plastic bags or not or whether you think it makes little difference in the scheme of things. I await your reply.

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 56 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
By the fact that you can't

By the fact that you can't tell says alot.
That is the entire liberal enviromental schtick in a very few words.

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
I still await your choice of

I still await your choice of reply. Waffling and obfuscation won't cut it. If you don't want to answer because it would tend to incriminate you I will certainly understand, as will the rest of those on AMG who read your responses. It must be frustrating for you and Mel to rarely have a thought of your own and have to parrot the untruths the Progressives feed you.

By the way, you may brand me a Liberal but must qualify it by confining it to the Webster's dictionary definition as a noun, one who is free in thought and action.

Melvin Udall
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 5 min ago
Joined: 05/01/2002 - 12:01am
Why is any reply necessary?

Why is any reply necessary? You issue proclamation after proclamation.

There is nothing anyone else could offer that you either know is wrong or already know.

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 56 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
pmconusa

pmconusa
I did reply the problem appears to be in your house.

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 56 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
pmconusa

deleted

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 56 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
pmconusa

deleted

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 56 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
pmconusa

deleted

SDC
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 04/15/2014 - 12:58pm
pmconusa

pmconusa
Are there any paper mills left in Maine that produces paper bags?If so,I could support a plastic ban,both for economic and biodegradable reasons.Otherwise,it's all an importation trade off.

Rebecca
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 05/07/2008 - 3:17pm
Anybody want to bet that when

Anybody want to bet that when the paper bags are delivered that they will be palletized and wrapped in plastic? Has anyone checked to see if any of the city council has financial ties to any paper companies or wood harvesting companies?

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
Rebecca: If it was for

Rebecca: If it was for financial gain I could certainly understand it because that is how our legislators and congressmen get rich. These people just have no clue and do it simply because they can as a manifestation of the power they have acquired simply by being elected. We are the stupid ones for putting these people in office in the first place. I have not voted for a single one of them even though I vote in every election, either putting someone else's name in the write in or just writing none of the above. Unfortunately we are only given a choice of at most three, one of which has not the ghost of a chance of winning and the other two are just peas in the same pod.

Regardless, none of them represent me and even if one perchance did he or she would be one of nine and be shot down every time if they proposed any changes.

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
Logging is still a

Logging is still a significant part of Maine's economy, so switching to paper bags does indeed support Maine's economy.

The environmental argument is not about what ends up in the landfill, it's about what ends up in streams, rivers, ponds, and forests. Paper bags disintegrate pretty quickly, but plastic bags live for a mighty long time.

The original argument against paper was because of clearcutting forests, but I believe now most trees used for paper are cut from "farms" (i.e. trees in the same space cut over and over again). I could be wrong on this, so someone please chime in if they know this industry.

Anyway, my town (Kennebunk) banned plastic bags last year and now I go to Biddeford to get them (we use them in the waste basket bins). I can tell you right now, nobody is going to pay 1 cent and bag their own groceries just so their cupboards can be overflowing with plastic bags. In fact, since this is 2017, nobody is going to bag their own groceries, period.

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
Tell that to all the mill

Tell that to all the mill employees who have lost their jobs. I'll bet the paper bags used in the grocery were not made in Maine and probably not even the US.

My point in all this, until you started digressing in tangential topics, is that the government has been slowly and inexorably chiseling away at our freedoms. This latest by the Brunswick Town Council and others is not only in violation of the town charter that does not give them the power to ban anything but the fact is utterly ridiculous to start with when you look at all the items in the grocery store, nearly 99% are wrapped in plastic of one kind or another. At least the English took a stand at this idiocy. We just roll over.

Al Amoling
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 17 min ago
Joined: 07/07/2004 - 12:01am
Well, well AC something that

Well, well AC something that we have in common leaving K to go to B to shop.

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
Al: Did you figure in the

Al: Did you figure in the cost of gas in your comparison shopping? My wife goes to Portland to shop at Trader Joe's to buy things we can get in Brunswick. When I question her about it she says she is there already when she goes for her acupuncture treatment, that she can also get in Brunswick. You figure.

Al Amoling
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 17 min ago
Joined: 07/07/2004 - 12:01am
Actually I don't comparison

Actually I don't comparison shop because I know that the prices at the Hannaford in Kennebunk are so much higher than the Market Basket in Biddeford.

Al Amoling
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 17 min ago
Joined: 07/07/2004 - 12:01am
Also the price of gas in

Also the price of gas in Biddeford is usually way cheaper.

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
So why don't you move to

So why don't you move to Biddeford?

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
At Hannaford this morning I

At Hannaford this morning I examined the paper bags now being used to bag my groceries. It was made in Kentucky from recycled paper. It carried the request to please recycle so they may be used again, not by the store, because it knows you would not accept used bags to bag YOUR groceries, but perhaps sent to that plant in Kentucky. How many of these bags will see the recycle bin and if this is such a good idea, like recycling bottles and cans, isn't adopted by every State? Just as there is no such thing as perpetual motion, there is no such thing as perpetual recycling and sooner, rather than later, it will all run out because we are producing consumers faster than the earth's ability to produce. As Bruce would say, "its in the book".

Al Amoling
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 17 min ago
Joined: 07/07/2004 - 12:01am
I'm way too old to be moving

I'm way too old to be moving again. I like my house and in retirement could not pay for anything else.

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
"Actually I don't comparison

"Actually I don't comparison shop because I know that the prices at the Hannaford in Kennebunk are so much higher than the Market Basket in Biddeford."

The difference in price between Hannaford and Market Basket is stunning. If you have a standard weekly buy of random stuff MB is like 25% cheaper. You could pay for a trip to Boston with that. (Plus, historically speaking, gas is pretty cheap, especially if you're a liberal who drives a Prius, haha.)

At this point, I consider Hannaford like a 7-11, super expensive but more convenient if I need to grab a couple of things.

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
"So why don't you move to

"So why don't you move to Biddeford?"

Biddeford is a quick drive. If you're going there for a bunch of stuff it's really not that bad.

anonymous_coward
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 10/21/2016 - 12:18pm
Distance from K to B is 10

Distance from K to B is 10 miles, depending on where you live.

Round trip = 20 miles, at a smug-inducing 60 MPG that works out to 1/3 of a gallon, which is $.90 at today's Harvey-inflated prices.

If you opt to pay the Bro-Tax and drive a pickup truck (assuming you don't need it for work and are just driving it to increase your Bro-Cred), that's still only $3.00.

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
You still don't get it. It

You still don't get it. It is not the cost of gasoline alone but your time. When I was a kid we had a local mom and pop store that my mother would frequent on her way home from work. When the supermarkets drove them out of business, shopping was done once a week where you could get a wider variety of products at the cost of buying a weeks supply of fresh produce, picked under ripe for the most part so it would not spoil before you got around to using it. Now, the supermarkets use so called fresh produce as loss-leaders to get you into the store to buy the other stuff on the shelves, most of which is there on consignment. What the supermarkets are selling is shelf space and the only thing the store actually owns is the building and chances are that is leased. They pedal a house brand of nearly the full spectrum of products but make their profits on the sale of products for which they rent shelf space. Like Cadillac and Kia, they both sell transportation but if you can afford it you buy or lease the Cadillac because it is the badge of the affluent. You buy the Del Monte as opposed to the Hannaford for the same reason, even if it is only to stroke your ego that you can. A tomato is a tomato regardless of how you package it.

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 56 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
AC

AC
Will you please "get it" .

You can get it anywhere you choose.

Al Amoling
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 17 min ago
Joined: 07/07/2004 - 12:01am
Well sorry to disappoint you

Well sorry to disappoint you but you don't get it. I choose to live my life the way i want. I don't need your BS trying to run my life.

Melvin Udall
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 5 min ago
Joined: 05/01/2002 - 12:01am
Some people have never, ever

Some people have never, ever uttered the words "I never thought of that," or even more telling, "I didn't know that."

Generally speaking, I try to avoid such people.

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others. His culture is based on "I am not too sure." -H.L. Mencken, writer, editor, and critic (12 Sep 1880-1956)

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”
― Bertrand Russell

pmconusa
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 04/20/2000 - 12:01am
Al: It is the Progressives

Al: It is the Progressives that are running your life and your options are getting fewer and fewer, Just like those who search for the so called wisdom of others with whom they agree. I didn't believe my informing you that we have let the progressives have that power would get you to actually accept the consequences of their actions as making you freer to make choices.

Pages

Log in to post comments