Heat is on/Global Warming

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JBC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

For those interested:
Fox News Channel: 8 to 9 tonight. It is on now.

JBC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

This show was definitely not fair and balanced. It was straight out of the playbook of Audubon and Sierra. If I didn’t know I was watching Fox, I would have thought I was watching MPBN.

The shows host had the audacity to close with “we brought you the facts and do not advocate one way or the other, you make up your mind”.

It was a one sided show period. It is all our fault according to the beautiful people.

dorsal scapular
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Heat is on/Global Warming

1st person to respond to your own post- got an agenda to push?

JBC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

You better believe it. When Fox puts on a one-sided show like that and calls it fair and balanced without any input from the other side, yes. 30 cm to go.

When the waters rise above the arrow, I'll start to get concerned.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39386000/jpg/_39386131_dead350.jpg

The Lempriere-Ross mark is still visible (Photo by J Daly)

By Jonathan Amos
Is this the picture that takes the heat out of global warming? It shows an Ordnance Survey Bench Mark engraved into a rock face on a little island near Port Arthur, Tasmania.

It was put there in 1841 by the famous Antarctic explorer Captain Sir James Clark Ross and amateur meteorologist Thomas Lempriere to mark mean sea level.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/467007.stm

Anonymous
Heat is on/Global Warming

jbc, a warming earth will not result in a higher ocean everywhere. the ocean has a topography and some of it is relatively fixed -- it has hills and valleys, so to speak, which correspond to gravitational variations of the earth, and the effects of the earth's rotation.

other parts of the ocean rise and fall with temperature, air pressure, etc. so it is not a simple case of the ocean rising the same amount everywhere. if you walk along the barrier islands of north carolina you will find many oyster shells on the beach, black in color. oysters don't grow on the ocean side of the barrier islands, they grow on the bay side. yet you find the oysters on the ocean side. why? because the ocean rose, pushed the island over the oyster shells (burying them), then as the islands continue to retreat landward, the shells are revealed again. they are black because they are thousands of years old. go look, they are everywhere, ancient oyster shells, and proof that the ocean has been rising for a long time.

one old waterman in virginia gave tours of the islands decades ago. when asked where he was born he pointed out to sea; the islands had retreated that much during his lifetime.

the ice age ended over ten thousand years ago, so the oceans have risen too. but virtually every major scientific organization has taken the position that human activity has greatly increased this trend. i would like to know why you all think that global warming is not something to worry about? what objective source do you have that outweighs, say, the National Academy of Sciences?

you must be gamblers because you are basically gambling that the earth has some feedback system to ameloriate the effects of additional CO2 in the atmosphere. the warming effect of CO2 is basic high school chemistry. you are counting on some system kicking in that may or may not actually be there. there could also be many systems that make things worse, much worse. you are counting on nature to fix things for us. it may or may not actually do so.

Joe Redneck
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Heat is on/Global Warming

If you climb Mt. Everst you will find sea shells also. SO what?? Maine was covered under 5 miles of glacier in the past. Did we cause those glaciers to melt?? ONe of thereasons dinosaurs got so big was because there was so much plant life during their time. It was considerably warmer with higher CO2 concentrations then. My understanding is that global warming will increase foods supplies significantly while raising ocean levels and decreasing the human population slightly. That's a bad thing because??

David Hughes
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Heat is on/Global Warming

1) it has not been shown that a warming of the Earth leads to a rise in sea levels. Simply put, as the poles get warmer the capacity of the air to hold moisture increases. Meaning it snows more. Meaning the ice packs at the poles will get thicker, not thinner. Yes, none polar glaciers will melt, but polar caps will thicken over land.

2) The question shouldn't be whether we should be concerned about global warming or not, the question should be what benifit is there to maintaining the status qou? with a very few notable exceptions Earth has been [b]much[/b] warmer than it is now.

3) Cookie to the first person who can explain to me why Mars is warming too. 2 systems, completely closed off from one another yet sharing a few common external factors. If both systems experience the same change it is likely that something in common to the 2 systems is driving the change.

4) As bad as CO2 is as a greenhouse gas, water vapor in the air is worse, yet just now climate models are including that.

5) kinda like just now scientists have come up with a [b]minimum[/b] contribution of increased solar output towards global warming.

So, someone explain to me, why is it better to keep things the way they are now and not let nature take its course

JBC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

ksherwoodf, [quote]the ocean has a topography and some of it is relatively fixed [/quote].
that is very interesting and something I was not aware of. I'll have to do my homework.

[quote]what objective source do you have that outweighs, say, the National Academy of Sciences? [/quote]

Well lets try with the "Petition Project".

"A review of the research literature concerning the environmental consequences of increased levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide leads to the conclusion that increases during the 20th Century have produced no deleterious effects upon global weather, climate, or temperature. Increased carbon dioxide has, however, markedly increased plant growth rates. Predictions of harmful climatic effects due to future increases in minor greenhouse gases like CO2 are in error and do not conform to current experimental knowledge."

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

And how about "Global Warming on Mars?"
http://www.enterprisemission.com/warming.htm

Or Partick J. Michaels:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pat_Michaels

Or Dr. Sally Baliunas:
Little Evidence of Man-Made Global Warming: TechCentralStation's Sallie Baliunas Testifies Before Congress
http://www.ewire.com/display.cfm/Wire_ID/1014

Calvin
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Heat is on/Global Warming

Do you think green house gases are less now with the automobile or would they have been less with everyone riding horses and leaving 5 lbs of horse poop on main street every trip?

JBC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

[quote]1st person to respond to your own post- got an agenda to push?[/quote]

Well I'm sorry because here I go again.
It's late and I have to leave tomorrow in the am for Fl.
It would be nice to continue this but duty calls. By the time I get
back this will be on page 81 but I will bring it back.

One site to check out would be:
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/Index.jsp

JBC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

Calvin, that is good.
Do you realize that it would take an area five times the State of Maine to feed the horses that ran around in the early 1900's let alone now. Talk about saving the earth.

Anonymous
Heat is on/Global Warming

Do you think green house gases are less now with the automobile or would they have been less with everyone riding horses and leaving 5 lbs of horse poop on main street every trip?
---------------------------------------

They are definitely and provably more with the automobile.

Here's why. Grow corn, captures CO2 --> Horse eats corn --> CO2 released. There is no net gain in CO2 over the year or so it takes for the horse to eat and ....

Automobile --> Burn sequestered hydrocarbons, make CO2. Net gain in CO2. As pointed out in another thread, you can say 'Ah! But the hydrocarbons from oil just have a longer cycle!'. But this is to misunderstand the problem. What you are doing is releasing, over a few centuries, carbon that it took hundreds of millions of years to sequester. The rates of sequestration/release is what is different here, than in the above example. this is why the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing so much.

David Hughes
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Heat is on/Global Warming

You might want to google "abiotic oil"

Just a thought.

It would make understanding that we really can go on burning oil forever much easier.

Question is what economic prices are we willing to pay for the privledge.

The carbon price can be avoided.

Butch Moore
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Heat is on/Global Warming

[quote]what objective source do you have that outweighs, say, the National Academy of Sciences?[/quote]

The NAS is objective? When did that happen? Can you say GRANT MONEY?

I saw the closing shot of the show, and then looked at the credits. It looked like a “who’s who” list of the Environmental Industry.

Fair and balanced indeed…

FXSTC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

I love global warming, my oil use is way down this year and I'm still riding the two-wheeler!

The Distributist
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GLOBAL WARMING = EFFECTIVE FUNDRAISING

From the CATO Institute: [url]http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/reg15n2g.html[/url]

""[b]Global warming[/b]" has become one of the major battle cries in their [b]fundraising[/b] efforts. At the same time, the media unquestioningly accept the pronouncements of those groups as objective truth. "

Melvin Udall
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Heat is on/Global Warming

So....FNC isn't a conservative puppet?

OMG!

Separately, for those of you who would like to stop global warming, what should be our target average global temperature (or whatever metric is used?) Should we bring the current number down to reverse the "warming" you are sure of? How should we do that, and when we reach the target temperature, how should we stop the "global cooling" we just caused?

In other words, let's say it's 71.385 degrees on average right now. Presumably, that's too warm, or you wouldn't be worried. So....what is the right number? 70.583 degrees? How do you know?

OK, I'll accept your "proof." Now describe how to get to 70.583 degrees and stop. Because if you go below that number, you will have deliberately caused "global cooling," wouldn't you have?

I mean where does it stop? Where should the global thermostat be set to make things the best for everyone, whatever that means?

FXSTC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

Melvin, Libs don't do well in higher math classes, significant figures are meaningless to them.

Al Amoling
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Heat is on/Global Warming

I thought the highest average global temp was set in 1988. Since we haven't exceeded that temp aren't we into global cooling?

FXSTC
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Heat is on/Global Warming

Maybe the 70s moonbats were correct, there's an impending ice age! If you make enough predictions, you're bound to get one correct..........

Or, you could believe these people and burn your car like they do in france!

[b]Natural Resources Council of Maine[/b]

[quote]The 1.1 million vehicles on Maine’s roads cause nearly 40% of the global warming pollution generated in Maine. [/quote]

[url]http://www.maineenvironment.org/news_detail.asp?news=206[/url]

Roger Ek
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Heat is on/Global Warming

David Hughes offers"

" 3) Cookie to the first person who can explain to me why Mars is warming too. 2 systems, completely closed off from one another yet sharing a few common external factors. If both systems experience the same change it is likely that something in common to the 2 systems is driving the change."

Global warming and global cooling are caused by the sun. Always have been, always will be. Way more than 99% of all greenhouse effect is simply water vapor. We had global warming long before we had automobiles, factories or hair spray.

Underwater cameras have photographed native camps off the coast of Maine in over 200 feet of water. Researchers have brought up spear points, arrowheads and other artifacts from these sites. There are cities under water in the Mediteranian. The oceans have been rising for centuries as the general warming trend continues. We have had short term fluctuations which young folks see as huge climate changes. In 1984 I walked across a lake on the ice during deer season. Not this year. I remember a warm Christmas with no snow in the 1950s. The ice never was safe that year.

I sent a framed statement to one of the Bangor weather forecasters years ago.

Climate is what we expect.
Weather is what we get.

cover_maine
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Heat is on/Global Warming

One major source of greenhouse gases is.....flatulence.....both from humans, farm animals and wild animals. That's right, FARTS. So should we get rid of all the cows in the world?

Of course, if you ask Lou McNally (a PHD in climatolog) and a maven on humans causing global warming....even Altitude Lou will concur that global warming will ultimately cause.....

......GLOBAL COOLING. Ain't nature wonderful???? It comes with an automatic, though blunt and unpredictable, thermostat.

If you listen to Lou and other experts, get ready for some excellent ski winters here in the Northeast!!!!

David Hughes
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Heat is on/Global Warming

*passes Roger a cookie*

I'm still waiting for the definative research that links global warming to increased volcanism. That would be the hoot nanny of all hoot nannies.

Butch Moore
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Heat is on/Global Warming

David, I seem to remember reading something about that. I wish I could remember where...

Roger Ek
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Heat is on/Global Warming

When Krakatoa blew in Indonesia we had a "year with no summer". It snowed in every month and crops were very poor.

When Pinatubo blew near Clark Air Force base several years ago there were spectacular sunsets for two years, but no global cooling. That one event produced more particulates in the atmosphere than every pound of fossil fuels burned since the industrial revolution.

The difference between these two events was the type of particulates produced.

Anonymous
Heat is on/Global Warming

At the same time, the media unquestioningly accept the pronouncements of those groups as objective truth.
-----------------------------------------------------

This understates the role of the media. The media sees GW as A HUGE STORY. Whenever there is a natural disaster, watch how they interview the poor meteorological expert. 'Was this hurricane caused by Global Warming.' 'Uh, it is hard to tie any particular event ... 'But COULD it have been caused ...' and so on.

I think Global warming is real and is something we should worry about, however. But the press keeps wanting to tie individual events to it and that is of course impossible, and only sets scientists up for ridicule.

And the Mars argument is a red herring. For one thing, there is always the counter example of venus, where you could have a molten lead lake if you wanted one. Yes, it receives roughly 4X the energy from the sun as the earth, but it is WAY hotter than it would otherwise be thanks to GW.

And while the surface of Mars has been looked at pretty well we do not have more than four years' direct measurement of temperatures there -- and that from only five data points (ok, the rovers move around, but they have only traveled 7 miles or so between them). And we have not been able to measure temperatures remotely for very long. So I am very skeptical about the accuracy of that claim.

David Hughes
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Heat is on/Global Warming

We've been monitoring the Mars ice caps for the last 6 years up close and longer from afar. They are [url=http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17977]retreating. [/url] If the older pictures where dramatically different from the last 6 years the idea of Mars warming would have been disconted before NASA released anything to the public.

As to the short time frame you mention, [url=http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html]this [/url]is what came of that.

Venus isn't a counter example. Not unless you know of any cooling going on there?

Now I have an old study book here that says the tempurature on Venus in 1973 was 800F, but currently the tempurature is reported as being 870F. I can understand the inaccuracies of estimating tempurature over such a distance, but this is 11 years after Mariner 2 made a fly by of Venus with one of it's chief science goals being the confirmation of the high surface tempuratures. So it would seem that Venus is warming as well! I'll give some inaccuracy to the reading, but I won't give 9%. For comparision as to inaccuracies, the book I have shows Earth with a 60F, modern reports put the Earths tempurature at 59F. Shows Saturn as -220F while we know today it's -240F

So I'll give that my book isn't as accurate as it could be but 9% off, no.

cover_maine
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Heat is on/Global Warming

Great find David. Of course it could be said by the greenhouse greenies that the evil human race :twisted: has heated up the earth to the point whereby earthly global warming is soooo bad it's affecting Mars? And if Mars starts to cool, then Dirigo can take credit!

The Distributist
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Heat is on/Global Warming

[quote="Roger Ek"]Cookie to the first person who can explain to me why Mars is warming too.[/quote]

It MUST be our Rover that is causing Mars to heat up.

[img]http://www.uta.edu/uta/feature-pix/mars_rover_pic.jpg[/img]

I prefer oatmeal cookies.

Butch Moore
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Heat is on/Global Warming

Here's another link from the study David posted:

[url=http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2005/09/sunwarm.html]Sun's Direct Role in Global Warming May Be Underestimated, Duke Physicists Report[/url]

H. Hunt
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Heat is on/Global Warming

[quote="Roger Ek"]
When Pinatubo blew near Clark Air Force base several years ago there were spectacular sunsets for two years, but no global cooling. That one event produced more particulates in the atmosphere than every pound of fossil fuels burned since the industrial revolution.
[/quote]

[img]http://groups.msn.com/5fhv8ngibg6aqjhhbiflqc1fu7/files/Pictures%2FPictur...

I'm keeping my bone cold fingers crossed for global warming.

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