How will America EVER reconcile the staggering difference between two ideologies?
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I have followed politics for many years and have come to some conclusions. It appears to me, and I hope others have conclued the same, that there are two vastly different political and social "ideologies" in America that IMHO cannot ever be reconciled!
On one side we have the progressive "thinkers" and their "beneficiaries" who promote the cause of "government is the saviour/provider" while the other side is very conservatively based, primarily, on what the founders of this nation had for ideas, that mainly we are responsible for ourselves, endowed with certain basic rights, granted by our "creator" as opposed to the "government as protector" of the left. These two ideologies have become spread further and further apart, as time has gone by, and more and more of us have become "beneficiaries" of government largesse, the divide has widened. Some would put it at around 50-50 division of thinking, while others, including me, often, place the "progressives in the lead here.
But no matter what the actual numbers are, there are millions of die hard conservative thinkers, and doers, who want our nation to get back to its roots, and are trying to do anything they can to do just that.
It appears to me that, because of the numbers primarily, that the conservative cause is NOT going to prevail, simply by "voting to do so", as there don't appear to be enough votes to really effect significant change.
I am pretty sure that there is NO compromise position possible, as neither side seems to want to try and "reconcile with those of the opposite point of view.
So just what do we think is going to happen........in the long run?
How might this change for the better?
WC
I disagree. There is really only one side in government and that is the government side. Government has become nothing but a way for individuals and small groups from both sides to use the system to vote themselves favored legal status and gifts from the public treasury. That's why our tax code is over 70,000 pages long. Is there any reason that a fair tax code would need to be even 10% that long?
That's why legisvermin from both side RAN back to Washington to vote for TARP to rescue the favored groups from the folly of their own mistakes. I thought that the reason that the big banks made all of that money was that they took the risks. Turns out that it was the taxpayers who took the risks and the bank who reaped the rewards (it sure would have been nice to have a few million in tax money to plunk into the market when the DOW was at 6,000). Where was the 50% of the nation that is in favor of personal responsibility then?
And for those of you who believe that the Republicans are different, please tell me why the cornerstones of our energy policy was the twin follies of ethanol and wind power even when the Republicans were in charge or why the Republicans were right in the front when bailing out the banks..
WC you are witnessing why democracies will never work and that is because it is a system whereby the majority forces the minority to conform and we have put in place a system that guarantees it will continue as long as government can print money. What happened to Germany after World War I is happening to us but in a much slower fashion. During the great depression you could buy an apple for a nicle. Today you couldn't even buy the rind for that. People fail to realize that food is cheap simply because we buy and process half of it from countries that are even worse off than we are.
Lyndon Johnson's grand society solidified the entitlement class. Back during the depression, we had some gestures toward it with the CCC and WPA, but those folks actually worked. It was make-work for many employees, but they wanted to get back to real jobs as soon as possible. They were motivated to get married, start families and carry on the traditions of established civilizations. The progressive movement wanted to tear this down. The most effective way to destroy a society is to destroy the family. Progressives are working hard to do just that. They decided to pay girls to have children out of wedlock. Prior to that time, if a girl got pregnant she went away "to take care of her sick aunt" for seven or eight months and came home "when her aunt was better". The baby was adopted by a relative or a deserving family.
Contrast that with a welfare queen who has half a dozen kids, all supported by people who work. The system is broken. Those who work know this. They see the welfare queen sitting at home watching Oprah and Dr. Phil on a big screen TV while they work two jobs to support the progressive system. Every town and city in Maine has such examples. Probably every city in the nation has the same system while those who work support alien criminals who come to enjoy the benefits of Johnson's grand society.
We are a shrinking minority. We know it and the progressives know it. All they have to do is pander to the entitlement class to get the votes they need to keep their system going. The responsible people in our society reminisce about the old days when the majority of citizens were responsible. Those days are gone. Responsible people realize they are gone forever or until the system changes. The system cannot change peacefully because the entitlement class is a majority and they will not vote themselves off the gravy train. Proof of that is simply the 2008 election.
The system cannot change peacefully. There; It has been said right here on AMG, a forum that does its best to be centrist. Meanwhile, responsible people are preparing for the inevitable "adjustment". Charlie MacArthur, a Maine author, wrote a book called "The Adjustment". It's worth a read. I have a copy signed by the author. Charlie is on WVOM from time to time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000AXWTCE/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&c...
I think that over time, you are going to have some courageous state governors, probably in the south, just start ignoring government mandates and liberal courts. Look, a few states have already said they will ignore Obamacare. Over time, workers and freedom lovers will flock to these states, while the liberals and entitlement users will flee. After a while, when the federal government can no longer support the entitlement society, they will try to go after the independent type states, which could potentially lead to a second civil war.
Unlikw hatchcar I am not optimistic about the future. Even down at the local town levels I see the takers outnumber the doers. There is a certain philosophy of greed and dependency that pervades our culture today. Yes we see young man and women who still have the love of country to give up their lives for it but they are vastly smaller in number than those who have their hands out to the nanny government. There is a certian "Me First" attitude that appears most everywhere you look and predicts bad things to happen in the future.
Some are innately greedy while others have been trained into that thinking by our progressive government programs such as Johnson's "Great Society." Many have been forced into govenment largess by acts of the Congress that are now viewed as unsustainable, such as Social Security and Medicare. Most, if they were to sit down and compare carefully what they could have provided on their own would opt to not be forced into those programs, but had no choice because of what congress did..
I hope I am wrong, but it would seem that eventually the nanny government will not be able to provide and the half that has its hands out will riot and chaos will prevail. That outcome depends on who is our leader; whether we face the issue head on and fix it or whether society as a whole collapses into depravity and annhilation. No matter which course prevails it will not be pretty and scares me as to how my grandchildren will fair.
Have we gone to far to turn back? Yes, I think so when half of Americans die with less than $10,000 assets, while we as a nation owe $16 Trillion in debt. We have dug such a deep hole there is no way of ever getting out of it without severe pain. God have mercy on us!
How might this change for the better?
Vote out every incumbent in Congress and the U.S. Senate and start from scratch. Get some of those mossbacks out of there who haven't done anything but line their pockets for the past 20 years.
........"The system cannot change peacefully. There; It has been said right here on AMG, a forum that does its best to be centrist"......
I have made essentially the same statement here several times in the past, and have gotten booed for it before, too! I ususally say "this situation will not be fixed by voting for change" which is just another way of saying the same thing.
There is a large element of Americans living off the hard work of those of us still stupid enough to work. So someday, If the government no longer will be able to issue checks and debit cards to these folks, to buy their necessities of life, then what do people think is going to happen in that event?
Some have suggested that these folks will just go find jobs. But how can they, they are virtually unemployabe because they have never worked because they never had to. i don't think that "work" will be an option for most of them.
So, if some catastrophe ensues, what will they do otherwise, in order to survive?
WC
Anarcho-capitalism a la Rothbard is not achievable through the ballot box.
Entitlement reform is achievable, however, if we elect more people like Paul Ryan, and if the Rothbardians help instead of holding out for Galt's Gulch writ large.
Let's aim for the achievable.
It's the only peaceful path to the small-government ideal.
If you read the Constitution as it was written you can immediately see the flaw that has caused its demise. It is the lack of swift and appropriate punishment for anyone who fails to uphold the rules it sets down.
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WC, as a friend of mine put it simply, "There are those who want to be left alone, and those that just will not leave you alone".
In the future, the economic situation will cause this to change, and there's nothing that the statist of both ideologies you've mentioned can do about it. As they say, there is a silver lining in the clouds of gray. I'm optimistic that with the younger generation having to endure the pain and suffering that will take place due to the economic conditions that this country will face, will learn from this, and never to repeat it again.
Also, if you have time, google, "Thrive", and watch this film by Foster Gamble. It's a bit out there, but I think worth the look.
That is why I was very encouraged with the recent presidential campaign of a certain individual(will not mention his name. Don't want to get Apollo excited), who helped to educate people about what is going on, and what is needed to end this utter stupidity.
I'm also encouraged that more young people are rejecting politics as a means of solving these problems. What isn't needed is more central planning, but rather decentralizing and getting the decision making process out of DC and in Maine, out of Augusta, and having local people, and communities solving these problems. Will never understand how the problems of Madawaska Maine can solved in DC or Augusta.
Well, I might be a bit more optimistic about the future, but there are many things going on that the lame stream media doesn't report on that are taking place in this country that will someday make all of us free!! Thank for the opportunity to rant!!