Ignorant police officer tells citizen: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"

Apollo countdown…10…9…8…7…

Hey, this is the kind of gay guy I'm happy to get behind!

Errr... maybe that was a poor choice of words.

False arrest...I'm glad they are suing the police department. I'm kind of surprised they didn't smash the gay guy's friend's face for even filming the incident.

blah, blah, blah

Jo: First, welcome to AMG! And please thank your son for his service to his community.

Second, you can write a post as long and drawn out as you'd like - but it doesn't negate the fact that the police personnel involved in this incident were wrong. They were wrong on the law and they were wrong in their actions which served to escalate the situation. While you're correct in that no one is ever 100% correct, if you are going to make a living as a public servant - the key word here is servant - you'd be best served by following Daniel Boone's advice to "be sure you're right, then go ahead."

Third, police men are trained to be aggressive with gay OR straight OR black OR blue people, man or woman, whomever are acting in a "hostile way". When the victim started becoming sarcastic, HE opened his own "can of whoop ass". Cops are human too. They make mistakes. They are not perfect. They do not have a brain like a computer and can not remember every damn new law change that occurs.

Rightly or wrongly, public servants are - and should be - held to a very high standard. They don't get a break. Their responsibilities to their respective communities do not allow it. It is their job to stay current on changes to the law. And they are not afforded the opportunity to "open a can of whoop ass" on someone simply because that someone was sarcastic. They'd better work damn hard to be the adults in the room - that is their job - that is what they are paid for. Wearing a badge does not give the police a free license to "be aggressive."

and blah

Apollo,
The usual is they, just strike your head on the roof. on the way into the car
That numbs you for a while ;)
Otherwise, gay/ gey or not
He's got the right to have the gun.
As do we.
He''s got a great law suit- especially being gay,
Us white married people, with military records are certainly the bad guy's.
Judge will love this guy.

and barf!

Okay, Jo, I was really trying to be nice to you, given that you're new here and all. Let's take this one by one - and I'll type slowly, since it appears evident that you can't read fast.

Reagnite, it that you first name, last name or a clever disguise? I never understand why people with nothing to hide can't just use thier real name.

First, my handle is Reaganite. Please do spell it correctly. Second, since you're apparently not familiar with the policies of AMG, anonymous handles are perfectly acceptable. I'm guessing that you are unfamiliar with the writings of several of our founding fathers who published anonymously. If you don't like the policy, take it up with Naran or Scott. But don't whine about it.

First, I am not a young, swanky, smooth talker. I happen to be a teacher and learned along time ago I tend to be long winded, nothing meant by it except that I tend to over-explain or over-share......my BAD.

You have every right to be long winded. Most folks who are don't tend to say much. So you're batting a thousand thus far. I will, however, applaud you for teaching. It is certainly not everyone's cup of tea.

Second, I agree these officers were wrong. They are only human and your comments of holding them at "a higher standard" is just plain unrealistic. They are after all only human, not super heros. Yes, they do make mistakes but not intentionally. They are held at a higher standard in every aspect of thier live, on the job or off, 24/7. I recall their statement mentioned a cheat sheet, which they all use, and it was out-dated. Honest mistake and they owned up to it. What more do you want from them? To call thier Sargent and check first to see if thier cheat cheat that he probably gave them was correct?

Great! You agree...you should...it is the right thing to do in this case. Being wrong in the application of the law is just that - wrong. And making threats to a citizen who was acting within his rights? That was even more egregiously wrong. "Cheat sheets" are a wonderful tool. But it is incumbent upon each officer of ensure that his knowledge of the law is correct. If he has to call his Sargeant, he is derelict.

Third, MY SON NOR ANY OTHER "OFFICER OF THE LAW" IS NOT A PUBLIC SERVANT. That is just plain disrespectful. Policemen are not elected officials who are public servants. If he wanted to be a public servant, he could make a much better salary being a waiter in a dive bar and not have to wear a bullet-proof vest in 110 degree weather or always be looking over his shoulder for the crack head he arrested last week who threatened to kill him and his family when he got out of jail. When you walk in a police officers shoes then you have the right to critize.

Sorry, but everyone who works for a salary paid by taxpayers is by definition a public servant. If you are offended by the truth, I'd suggest the BDN as a better place for you to post. He chose to accept the hardships that come with the job when he accepted it. Please don't belittle his service by making excuses for him. And as a taxpayer, I have a perfect right to criticize the performance of any public servant.

Let me ask you this Reagnite? Do you have any children? As a parent, how would you like to go to bed every night wondering if you will ever see your only child alive again because he is out there protecting the public. No, police men are NOT public servants who take out the dirty trash.

Do I have children? Yes. Who do I count on to protect them? Me. The police have no duty to protect an individual. Please educate yourself before posting things that make you look foolish. Dependency upon the government is a very liberal trait. I'm starting to wonder about you already. And yes, police men are public servants every bit as much as those who "take out the dirty trash." Of course, being a conservative, I take out my own dirty trash - and then pay a hardworking private trash hauler to get rid of it. I don't depend on the government to get even that minor detail right.

I do not waste my valuable time being talked down somebodies nose who thinks they are better than me. Your long winded narrative fell on deaf ears as I stopped after your first degrading remark.

I find men like you very offensive, oh, can I say that here? Since I am ignorant and all. I may be nobody but I do not need someone who hides behind a "handle", I thot that was on a pot?, to be rude and offensive.

I volunteer for Domestic Violence and Rape victims as a Court Advocate and am on call 1 week a month to go to the EmergencyRroom when a victim is beaten or raped, child or adult. There are clearly enough verbally abusive men in my public service, I will not allowed myself to be demeaned by yet another.

If I wasn't afraid Naran would kick me of AMG, I would tell you what to do with your snide, nasty comments, new member and all. My inital comment was never meant to be taken as a personal affront and yet I find people who take it personal always have another agenda.

Save it for someone in your life who will listen.

Well, I never figure'd you were on pot.
I too. have stuff to do, sorry too hear about the job.
You being an "Domestic Violence and Rape victims as a Court Advocate"
No wonder your the upset at that, remark.
We've had your kind over to check us out.
Good people, misguided all the way.
Tell you what Jo I'll give you a clean slate.,
IF you can prove to me that as a parent I need you.
Well I got nothing in return you still suck,

Otay, kiddies, please do not make me pull over the cah.

Thank you.

Goodness -- I think we've met the "anti-Tom". In the Bizarro world, Tom C thinks the police officer is always right at some level, regardless of the facts.

PS to all: the "you're about to get the **** kicked out of you" comment came when the decision had been made to arrest, and not before. It was a poorly crafted promise of additional force if the subject did not lower his arms so he could be handcuffed as part of the arrest process. It may well have violated department policy re dealings with the public. It is poor public relations. It implies improper intent to the onlookers. If the threat has the effect of bringing about submission to arrest, it has "worked" in some sense. This is regardless of whether the policy violation buys the officer a day or two off without pay.

The 500 lb. gorilla in the room however is the arrest of a person whom the officer does not have PC (probable cause) to believe has committed a crime. Any force used to effect an illegal arrest gets thrown onto the damages pile.

Finally: I will continue to be "long winded". Hell with the rest of you "short winded" types.

Bandwidth, everybody.............bandwidth.

Use it.
Don't abuse it.

In the Bizarro world, Tom C thinks the police officer is always right at some level, regardless of the facts.

Good Lord, who started the thread Police "Good Work" Department? You can not dismiss my complaints by saying I "always think the police officer is wrong." That's lazy, misleading and inaccurate.

I find men like you very offensive, oh, can I say that here?

[Emphisis mine]

Got it!

Jo had no basis for thinking that those taking issue with her comment were all men. However, she ASSumed that were the case.

It is cleat that JO has a problem with men, and even fantasizes how evil they are.

She's argumentative, hates men, can't compose a logical argument. And she works with the courts.

THIS is the court system today.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

I do not waste my valuable time being talked down somebodies nose who thinks they are better than me. Your long winded narrative fell on deaf ears as I stopped after your first degrading remark.

I find men like you very offensive, oh, can I say that here? Since I am ignorant and all. I may be nobody but I do not need someone who hides behind a "handle", I thot that was on a pot?, to be rude and offensive.

I never said I was better than you or that you were ignorant. I said you were wrong and I explained why you were wrong. If you can't deal with that, don't post. Because someone is always going to believe that you are wrong.

And again, if you don't like that I and others have the ability to post anonymously, take it up with Naran and Scott. But please stop whining like a liberal about it, as it is most unbecoming of a public servant who is charged with educating our youth.

deja vue A pond song

Public Servant: To protect and serve.

Far from offensive in fact It's part of the creed. When a citizen calls the Police go into service functions. Good PD' s render aid, give directions to lost people, insure safety, and maintain community ties.

Since I was a child I have wanted to be a cop. I looked up to them and still do. I decided I didn't want to be a cop after I began watching "COPS" on TV. I saw what kind of human detritus they had to deal with along with filth, psyco-nutjobs, drug vermin, child molesters and generally scum if the earth not to mention all the bodily fuids they hasd to deal with. Not for me.

On the other hand, when I was working hanging aluminum awnings and patio covers, Milt, an old guy I was working under said..."Kid, the owner of the house is a city cop. We won't be here for more than 20 minutes when this dork will come out and tell us how to do our job. The cop owner did just that within that time frame. Milt said that over his 35 years of doing this job that cops ALWAYS come out and try to order the contractors around about how to handle the job. He said it is because they have gotten used to people being afraid of them and they have gotten used to being the order giver. Right or wrong, his opinion was that old line cops are warped with a superiority/power trip complex because they can and will kill you.

“ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense.”

Jo, this works both ways. It is the duty of an officer to know the law, and the duty of the officer's supervisor to make sure he/she knows the law. Mistakes can happen, for sure, but again the paid professional has the greater responsibility. End of story.

"The 500 lb. gorilla in the room however is the arrest of a person whom the officer does not have PC (probable cause) to believe has committed a crime. Any force used to effect an illegal arrest gets thrown onto the damages pile."

TJC, I'm thinking that since "Colorado Springs police said they were wrong to arrest Sorensen" this one likely gets tossed into the damages pile, as in how much they pay in damages?

Oooooh, we got a shiny, new, live one!

Butch:

If we make the usual HUUUUGE assumption that the press has gotten any part of the story right, yeah, the admission helps the other side. Still, since fisticuffs and wrassling and pepper spray were NOT used, the damages will be kept at manageable levels.

If I were the loss control guy in such a situation, I'd attempt to find out the plaintiff's "hourly rate", triple it, pay him for his time, and do a brief public service spot flashing his picture, noting his innocence, and apologizing. Has he got an attorney in the criminal matter? Pay the usual hourly. Cost? Three - six grand. If payment works as a defense there like it does here, it might well eviscerate any subsequent lawsuit.

TJC, it appears that the mayor of Colorado Springs has also chimed in (provided the report is accurate):

http://www.gazette.com/articles/gay-143175-gun-bear.html

10 years since the law changed?

Contrast the Portland cop who was politely persistent re the "open carry" fellow in the video -- taking one's time is a VERY good idea, if you have it.

Tom ---> TJC wrote "Tom thinks the police are always right...." ---> not "wrong." Go back and review.

***********

Punk!!!!! Good to hear from you. :)

Thanks, Naran! Still around and kicking ;)

How are you? Are you keeping those Kennebunk Police from stealing your guns in the town square?

Yesterday Reaganite said: And again, if you don't like that I and others have the ability to post anonymously, take it up with Naran and Scott.

I could not agree more. Some who represent businesses or organizations choose to post their personal opinions anonymously.

But please stop whining like a liberal about it, as it is most unbecoming of a public servant who is charged with educating our youth.

Reaganite, I'm glad you mentioned this. I was about to remind Jo Woodworth that as a teacher, paid by tax dollars, she is indeed a public servant.

Mike G. - deja vue A pond song

LOL. Working on it.

Mike G. - deja vue A pond song

No deja vue here.

67........ not quite a 100 acre wood.

Tom ---> TJC wrote "Tom thinks the police are always right...." ---> not "wrong." Go back and review.

I know what I was saying. You go back and review.