Koran-Burning Puts US in an Unusual Quandry
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A Florida church is planning to burn a copy of the koran on 9/11. While I wouldn't do that, I don't see how such an action puts us at any more danger than we're already in. "Death to America" has been the chant for years now, and, in case no one notices, they are already targeting American troops. And Americans in general.
While I think it's not a great idea, it is their First Amendment right.
Whoa! The deja keeps right on vuing! It's the mirror image of building a mosque and Muslim center near Ground Zero.
Florida Church set to burn copy of koran
Dove World Outreach Center, a tiny Florida church, is burning up the headlines with its plan, still on, according to On Deadline, to build a bonfire for the holy book of Islam, on September 11th. General David Patraeus has warned, in an e-mail to the Associated Press, that images of the bonfire could well provoke violent international protests and endanger U.S. troops.
This Florida situation causes me severe problems. There would be a horrible hue-and-cry were there to be bible book burnings or torah scroll burnings. Whether western-culture religionists like them or not, treatment of the quran should be the same as that expected of the bible. I don't see that any differently.
Michelle hit the issue accurately in that this is indeed a mirror-image of the mosque construction philosophical issue: they have the right to do it but is it the right thing to do?
American history is full of these quandries. John Adams was appalled at a massacre by Redcoats in Boston yet, as a lawyer, he defended an English soldier in court because of belief in equal justice and he still felt loyal to his anti-Crown political leanings. A few years ago when a neo-Nazi group wanted a parade permit in predominantly-Jewish Skokie, IL, it was a Jewish lawyer who argued their case in court that, although it was bad taste and repelled him personally, they still had an equal constitutional right for public assembly which could not be denied.
Hue and cry is also legal. Criminal penalties for burning (safely) one's own document are not.
Where are the secular progressives defending their rights?
Beem? Buehler? Others?
This is a segment on FNC as I type.
I guess this is one way to draw out the radicals.
Why would any American want to do anything that might cause harm to our troops fighting over there?
Why would any American want to do anything that might cause harm to our troops fighting over there?
As any parent of "our troops fighting over there" will tell you, they are not playing chess with the enemy. Our troops are already being targeted and attacked.
Furthermore, one of the things those troops are sworn to do is to fight for the rights of idiots to build mosques at Ground Zero, burn the koran, or stomp on the US flag.
Swampy, the motives of someone who is exercising their First Amendment rights is not an issue at all. They are allowed to exercise it, no matter how stupid they are.
They have the "right" to do it. No question. Simiar to the kooks that show up at military funerals cheering on the deaths of our soldiers. Another lunatic fringe group led by some nitwit zealot crying for attention. Its all about them isn't it?
You know and I know and they know they CAN do this, but it just seems like maybe it's bad form IMO. Legal, but perhaps not wise....?
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
This is the same as the Mosque at ground zero, yes it is legal but not a good idea IMO. Seems to a lack of common sense all around.
Vic opines:
There would be a horrible hue-and-cry were there to be bible book burnings or torah scroll burnings. Whether western-culture religionists like them or not, treatment of the quran should be the same as that expected of the bible. I don't see that any differently.
This goes beyond the veneer of "horrible hue-and-cry" analogy of Bible or Torah burnings to the Qur'an. (And please, to be respectful in the future, Vic, capitalize "B" in Bible and "T" in Torah, and "Q" or "K" in Qur'an or Koran, thank you. We must be respectful of ALL religions, Vic.) That's about as far as you can take your weak analogy. If we are truthful, the outcry isn't the issue.
The issue is the predictable and documented murderous response by Islamists to ANYTHING they deem offensive to their "religion" (which has been shown to be more of a political ideology for nearly fourteen centuries, regardless of Westerners and Europeans ignoring that rather large elephant in their living rooms all along).
I can't - off the top of my head - recall how many times someone has been murdered in response to the burning of the Bible or Torah in the last 50 years. Perhaps an isolated incidence or two? I can - and so can anyone willing to open their eyes to the truth - find countless examples of murderous responses to perceived "offenses" to Islam. Just ask Theo Van Gogh his thoughts on receiving the fall-out from being critical of Islam.
Oh, wait...you can't. He's been permanently indisposed for his views.
For a bit more commentary, read Five Years After Van Gogh's Murder, Free Speech is Under Attack.
The Islamists have us by the short hairs and they know it - laughing all the way from their mosques to the streets through Europe and the U.S.. They've been allowed to redefine the terms of religious intolerance. We've bent over backward to accomodate. It's beyond the point of return. Here's hoping you all enjoy your relegation to Dhimmi-American status. Might want to check in with your European relatives as to how they like their own new label...
Disrespectful to burn the Qur'an? Certainly. Worthy of the death penalty? No. Not unless you're an Islamist and are allowed the hyperbolic response. The outcome is predicted and the is reason why the likes of General Petraus and others are so quick to speak out against it.
As Michelle stated, we are already under attack. Here and abroad. Only now, we are under attack for even thinking of doing something that may "offend" Islam.
Thought crimes become hate crimes and so it goes...
I don't support this idea, but it is a perfect case to turn the tables on those claiming that if we don't let them build the mosque, they win, and all the other usual leftist tripe.
If it's principles that matter, not favoring one group over another, the liberals should be out defending this guy.
In the last two nights we watched several hours of 911 coverage on NatGeo. It was good to be reminded of what happened "out of the blue" 9 years ago and then reflect on such matters as this and the mosque.
The announced plan to burn a Koran makes interesting political theater, doesn't it?
Ironies abound, many of them suggesting that freedom of expression is more a matter of status than of right.
I am of a real mixed mind with this....we let anyone abuse Christians and their beliefs in any manner they desire, heck we let folk burn our flag, but dare to offend a violent religious minority and all heck breaks out.
... dare to offend a violent religious minority and all heck breaks out.
That's one irony - the phrase "soft bigotry of low expectations" springs to mind.
I expect to hear the PC squeak of 'hate crime' before the event...
I don't like book burnings. Not even "religious" books. Ignorance in full display is not pretty.
As a writer I don't like book burnings of any kind. Criticize it ad nauseum, but burning a book is a bit lame.
And yes what they are doing is protected under the 1st Amendment. They are certifiable morons and if anyone dies because of this stupidity I hope its not some innocent person not involved.
That seems like an irony rich post in and of itself.
My thought was that this minister is an idiot and needlessly insulting, Stupid thing to do.
Here is sentiments from the Catholic League:
September 7, 2010
BURNING KORAN IS DEADLY WRONG
Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on reports that a Florida pastor is planning to burn a copy of the Koran on 9/11:
Minister Terry Jones wants to show his anger at radical Muslims by burning a copy of the Koran on September 11. He is wrong morally, and he is literally endangering innocent lives.
The Koran is embraced by Muslims who are law-abiding men and women, as well as by terrorists. Jones knows this to be true, but somehow in his twisted understanding of Christianity, he thinks he has a right to insult and smear all Muslims. Furthermore, he is endangering innocent lives—including Americans—as Gen. David Petraeus has warned. Already, there are Muslims who have taken to the streets in Afghanistan and Indonesia.
While it would be wrong to sustain the "heckler's veto" by giving in to those who seek to veto free speech by heckling, in this instance the "heckler's veto" is moot: no one is in jeopardy of losing his free speech rights. What is being requested is a plea not to inflame passions needlessly by assaulting the sensibilities of Muslims worldwide.
In 1998, I criticized gay radicals who burned a copy of the Bible at Syracuse University to protest an appearance by Pat Buchanan. Now we have extremists on the right seeking to stoke the flames of bigotry against Muslims. It, too, must be criticized.
Minister Jones is more than a disgrace—he is engaged in agitprop and must be unequivocally condemned. There are plenty of legitimate ways to protest the wrongdoing that took place on September 11, 2001. Burning copies of the Koran is not one of them.
I never attend book burnings - they're always crowded with unfashionable, boring bigots with their triumphalist chitchat, never a decent drink, and seldom enough heat from the fire to roast a hotdog.
But the question of responsibility "if anyone dies" is interesting in a theoretical way. To wit, as a practical matter how does freedom of expression operate? Is it a matter of status, or of right?
If a member of A provokes group B and, as a proximate result, members of B cause violence - that's A's fault. Obviously. Goes without saying.
If a member of B provokes group A and, as a proximate result, members of A cause violence - that's A's fault. Well, that's obvious too.
This strikes me as an extremely bad idea, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is damaging Christian outreach to the Islamic world. It also has the flavor of "tit for tat".
But, I expect the Usual Suspects to leap right up and defend the Koran-burners right to torch, and to talk about the "valor of the Constitution" while doing so. Right?
This is a bad idea. Period
Well worth the time to read (and watch the video) the following commentary:
Eisenhower: Der Führer's Face song could endanger troops -- no, wait...
Sept. 7, 2010 - Jihadwatch.org
When the pastor of Dove World Outreach Center peers into the flames, perhaps he'll see the damage his stunt is doing to Christians the world over.
I'm seeing zero positive in this stunt.
skf
Me too; but it brings the 'dumb idea' vs 'you have a right' discussion front and center.
Agreed, Mel.
Further, as one said in the previously linked to article from JihadWatch.org, this could have been used as a "teaching moment" to the Islamic world by Gen. Petraeus. He could have said (I paraphrase) "We do not condone, nor encourage such disrespectful actions, HOWEVER this is the beauty of living in a free country where we have freedom of speech"...
Tragically, we once again have some American leaders giving a "battered wife response" to the Islamic world. Hoping against all hope that if "we" just behave better, or tell them we'll love them even harder, or try and be the people they want us to be, that they will respond in a loving manner - and not beat the crap out of us for just existing. Or further, attempt to kill us.
It doesn't work for "battered wives" and it won't work for America - and HASN'T worked for Europe. Unfortunately, no one pays attention to the handwriting on the wall.
And for the record, if anyone wants to respond 'negatively' to my "battered wife" analogy - spare me your lectures. I have an immediate family member who was one. I know the syndrome. Until she finally realized it wasn't HER fault and nothing SHE could do would make HIM love HER, she continued to subject herself to the beatings.
It is sick.
America, it's time to WAKE UP.
While I disagree with the Pastor in burning the Koran, the fact that he wishes to burn a Koran is not the real issue. Idiocy is often protected by the Constitution.
The real issue here is that a high ranking member of our armed forces has issued a mamby-pamby statement about the potential consequences. From a man entrusted with the responsibility of defending this country, I would much prefer a statement (and follow up action) more along the lines of "if they put one of ours in the hospital, we'll put two of theirs in the morgue."
I think I'd just as soon "...a high ranking member of our armed forces...", just shut up actually.
charlie
The book-burning minister was on ABC World News Tonight and seemed fixated on his idea and unrepenant when asked how he would feel if the action unleashed retaliatory attacks on innocent U.S. troops. However, reporter Terry Moran said that after the cameras were turned off he told him he would "pray on it" before the final decision to light the pyre. It's just a bad idea with horrible consequences. Again the quandry: he has a right to do it but it is not the right thing to do.
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Note: I am looking diligently for the State Department -- or any other federal government agency -- to condemn the burning of the pastor in effigy, the Black Panthers' plan to stage a counter-protest, or the protests in Kabul. So far, no luck.