[quote="Naran"]Anyone who thinks that what the coach did was commendable.[/quote]
I may have missed something in this thread, but I do not see where anyone said he should be commended. I do, however, see where people think this is no big deal. Personally, I think his actions deserve a, "don't do it again." It really is, "no big deal."
[quote="Robert"] Personally, I think his actions deserve a, "don't do it again." It really is, "no big deal."[/quote]
When asked about his actions by his superior, his response was "we won the game." That is what got him fired. Given time to consider his actions, he still saw nothing wrong with them.
I really don't see anything wrong with what he did, but given time, who knows, I may change my mind. :?
I think you'd have to ask the one young man who did have the cojones to speak up about being forced to do something that made him very uncomfortable.
And, yes, I do believe some on here have actively condoned what the coach did, and indicated they see nothing wrong with it, because gosh, it will "make men" out of those boys.
Men like that we can do without, thank you very much.
Nobody deserves, or needs, humiliation and group bullying.
Some of the reader comments on the story posted yesterday [url=http://www.sunjournal.com/story/197421-3/LocalSports/Incidents_sting_coa... sting coach[/url]
are interesting, with people claiming this coach has a history of anger management issues - breaking clipboards, humiliating players, etc.
This behavior, along with his assertion to his players that genitals and winning are interrelated, sounds a lot like teaching boys to be abusive. It's not surprising that some of the most abusive posters on AMG feel this coach's "methods" are acceptable.
[quote="red1"]This is an old "boot-camp" type of maneuver that maybe should't have happened in high school sports, but I feel more was made of this than should have been.[/quote]
True, I couldn't imagine myself doing this, it does seem a little odd, but I think it should be viewed in the larger context of what has been called the "sissification" of society. The wholesale social changes, the "war on boys" and feminization of the schools over the last 30 years has given us not only children that can't read or write, but children that can't seem to fit into the workplace, aren't motivated, don't seem to have strong moral foundations, and are the most violent generation that we can recall.
If you look at the results, I think you would have to go back to the "traditional" way of raising boys and men. Years ago it seems to me that we raised great generations years ago, men who were strong, respectful, self-suffient, moral, self-sacrificing, and made this country into a great place.
Compaired to those results, this wissy stuff just isn't working.
The sissies are the boys who did what the coach told them to do instead of telling him off.
[quote]strong, respectful, self-suffient, moral, sacrificing[/quote]
Funny; that perfectly describes most of the men I know, Tom. I think it also includes my son. Last I knew, no coach ever demanded that he participate in humiliating, stupid, crass rituals.
How on Earth did these men ever turn out so well without it?
[quote="lucky"] It's not surprising that some of the most abusive posters on AMG feel this coach's "methods" are acceptable.[/quote]
I think before you start calling particular posters to AMG "abusive" - you'd better be able to back that up - or retract that statement.
[quote="Naran"][quote]strong, respectful, self-suffient, moral, sacrificing[/quote]
How on Earth did these men ever turn out so well without it?[/quote]
Well, first of all, you haven't been in the locker room at halftime with him, so you don't really know what was said or done. Secondly, to call it a "humiliating, stupid, crass ritual" is merely your opinion. And, yes, I know that many women feel exactly the same way about many male "rituals".
But, your fine son aside, in general, kids are doing poorer now then they have in the past. More violence, incidents of mental illness, drug use, sex and teen pregnacy, inability to read or write and the reluctance or inability to fit into the workplace like no other generation in memory.
Again, I will look to the result. We are failing our children in a big way.
This way doesn't work. The old way did.
Tom - did I say anything about any posters in particular? No, I said "some". You have no business telling me what to do, what to post, what to back up, or what to retract. That is reserved for Naran or the Editor, not you.
[quote="lucky"]Tom - did I say anything about any posters in particular? No, I said "some". You have no business telling me what to do, what to post, what to back up, or what to retract. That is reserved for Naran or the Editor, not you.[/quote]\
OK, lucky, you've used innuendo to slur the supporters of the coach.
Let's see if you can support your assertion.
...kids are doing poorer now then they have in the past. More violence, incidents of mental illness, drug use, sex and teen pregnacy, inability to read or write and the reluctance or inability to fit into the workplace like no other generation in memory.
This way doesn't work. The old way did.[/quote]
Such sweeping generalizations are simply bunk. When each generation morphs into an â€˜olderâ€™ generation, they lament the disintegration and demise of the world as they know it in this same predictable way.
Trust â€˜em; theyâ€™ll be O.K.
Trust â€˜em; theyâ€™ll be O.K.[/quote]
Have you had to try to hire any of these kids to work for you?
Saying it's just the same "complaints about kids" is bunk.
Tom C - Read back through the posts in this thread, you should be able to see that certain posters have had a problem accepting opinions from those who think the coach was out of line. Debate is one thing, but some posts on this thread have crossed the line into petty attacks, IMO.
Saying it's just the same "complaints about kids" is bunk.[/quote]
I have hired them. They have a different world view, and approach lifeâ€™s issues in their own ways. Thatâ€™s to be expected.
How uninteresting and limiting it would be if each generation were but a younger clone of the preceding one. A Victorian mindset would not work to well in this day and age (thank goodness).
I have hired them. They have a different world view, and approach life's issues in their own ways. [/quote]
Yeah, especially when we expect such anachronistic behavior such as: "showing up for work."
[quote="lucky"]Tom C - Read back through the posts in this thread, you should be able to see that certain posters have had a problem accepting opinions from those who think the coach was out of line. Debate is one thing, but some posts on this thread have crossed the line into petty attacks, IMO.[/quote]
Yeah, OK, lucky.
And saying that ANYONE who supports the coach is "a caveman" - is NOT a petty personal attack, I take it.
[quote="Naran"]I think you'd have to ask the one young man who did have the cojones to speak up about being forced to do something that made him very uncomfortable.
Nobody deserves, or needs, humiliation and group bullying.[/quote]
No, but that's probably what this kid is going to get after all this.
I see choices.
The kid could have just done it and moved on.
The coach could have ignored that the kid didn't play along.
The administration could have gone with a quiet reprimand and threat of loss of coaching position.
Oh well, now those big grapes have turned into sour grapes.
Ah, high school--I miss it and I don't...
In order to coach in the state of Maine for high school, coaches need to take a couple of different classes, including sections on professionalism and sportsmanship.
Most coaches are also teachers. This act in my opinion crosses the lines of professionalism and sportsmanship. My schoolboy basketball career consisted of a couple of games in junior high, 20 years ago, looking at it now as a high school sports official, I would be appalled to hear this at a game I was working.
Granted, the locker room is a different place, the language that occurs in the room, from both genders is appalling. There are plenty of ways to get the message out without causing harm to the coaches livelihood.
While I personally don't think it's acceptable, locker room culture has always made the phrase "let's show them has the bigger _____" an accepted phrase in a pep talk, touching oneself in public is not needed to get the point across.
I'd like to see the MPA step in on this and make sure sanctions are swift and appropriate.
[quote]touching oneself in public is not needed to get the point across. [/quote]
says it all
Well, I better check my manhood when I get back from supper tonight. They might have frozen off. :shock:
Maine Moose - thank you for that perspective, coming from someone who currently coaches youngsters. I'm glad you can see the difference between "locker room talk," and what this particular coach did.
I told myself I was done with this thread when it turned into petty childishness of name calling. However I find myself inclined to make a few points. I know, it show's lack of brains on my part, perhaps I am a cave man. :)
lucky, I sure don't like being called an abusive poster just because I thought folks were over reacting and that there was some truth to the sissification comment. I also said grabbing the package was kinda dumb but minor. I don't think the coach should be fired for just that incident. Perhaps there is more to the story.
A couple of other so called facts that might not stand up, the locker room is not a public place. This was a team only meeting, at halftime. Since we are going to accept the newspaper report as accurate, which I find odd (every other thread says the MSM can't get the facts straight) There were also facts that said the coach had recently benched the same kid, also reports that the father of the kid was a problem. Why are some so quick to dismiss those so called facts? If the coach was a big abuser where was the complaint from the father when the kid was starting? ;)
Isn't is just as possible that this kid, with the support of his indulgent father, was a malcontent and was being disruptive to the TEAM? When i was involved that was more the typical situation. If you folks think that kids today are just fine you are wrong. This is not just an old man raving. Look at the stats. We are failing our children. Why is the 64,000 dollar question. I would submit that coddling is a big reason and unrealistic expectations are another.
Bullying and humiliation do nothing to increase good character, self-esteem, and team spirit. As Maine Moose said above, it's possible to coach successfully without intimidating and humiliating one's students.
Using your standards then. Should Naran be banned from posting for the same reason? 8) :shock: 8) Wasn't the act of posting a picture of a caveman intended to humiliate? Your are lucky I have tough skin or I might complain to the editor that I was humilitated.
When I ask you to stick your hand down the caveman's loincloth, you might have a bone to pick. Otherwise, I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
Let me set something straight, [i]I didn't post any caveman anything[/i]. I read through the entire thread and it was obvious to me that there were some nasty insults flying around. Things deteriorated from debate to attack from what I could read. Not EVERY poster, and I am going to decline to specifically name whose posts were the most offensive IMHO.
When a thread goes from debating ideas to name calling it's time for [u]everyone[/u] to take a break.
Well Lucky, I never said you said anything about a caveman, that was Naran. You called me, as I disagreed, an abusive poster. Now you say that you want everyone to take a break, well except you. You called the disenters abusive and wanted to have the last word. IMHO you painting with a wide brush when a smaller one would have done you well.
Look Naran I just was trying to tweak you, trying to get you to see some shades of gray here. You call them like you see them, thats fine. I will as well, so will others. Please be mindful that doesn't make any of us right or infallible.
The thing worthy of note is neither one of you will give an inch when called to task. Naran posting the caveman pic was wrong. lucky calling posters that disagree with you abusive is wrong. Neither post was discussion. It was simply name calling, own it and move on.
[quote="Naran"]Bullying and humiliation do nothing to increase good character, self-esteem, and team spirit.[/quote]
Tell that to military drill instructors. I went in to boot camp a punk, came out a different man, and a team player. :wink: