Local volunteer firemen, standing in middle of road, panhandling!
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I drove up to Dover last Friday morning to buy diesel fuel for my tractors. As I approached Foxcroft Academy I noticed this long line of orange cones on the center line. Soon traffic was stopped in front of me. Then I noticed that men in firemen's uniforms, holding a firemens boot in their hands, were approaching each driver begging for donations. I noticed on the way back that they had a small sign before the roadblock, advertising the "firemen's boot fund drive". It was an extremely busy Friday morning, just before one of the biggest weekends of the year.
Had to drive down to Dexter a few hours later, to go to the hardware store, and the Dexter Firemen had the same set up, perhaps even worse in some ways. Dexter has one four way intersection with traffic lights. These guys were set up.....in the intersection! They had cones extending from the center of the intesection, in all directions. When cars would stop for the red light, these guys would just walk along the line asking for handouts. Amazing!
This same kind of thing used to be done at the Sedgwick end of the Deer isle Sedgwick Bridge, some years back, as a "volunteer tollbooth, to raise money for project graduation. This is a good thing to do, as are volunteer fire departments necessary, and a good thing also. But is standing in the middle of a major highway, interfering with traffic flow, on an extremely busy day, in the middle of a major intersection too, really the proper way to raise money?
The road by Foxcroft Academy, carries traffic from three major arteries that meet at Monument Square. This is the busiest road in Dover, by a lot! Rt 7 through Dexter, carries major traffic year round, especially at this time of year as everyone is headed to Moosehead!
Somehow it seems to me that for our volunteer firemen to stand in the middle of the street, rattling their tin cans while begging for dollars, is kind of unseemly, not to mention a major inconvenience for those vehicles that are trying to use the public road at the same time.
I have always disliked this practice because it is being done in such a way as to deliberately try to stop cars so the drivers can be hit up for money. Right at Foxcrot Academy are parking lots on both sides of the road. A small booth could have been set up and those wanting to donate could have pulled over and done so. In Dexter the cars had no choice but to stop on the red lights, as it is right beside the police station. Then they became easy prey for the local "hustlers"! The aim clearly seems to be to deliberately interfere with the flow of traffic in order to hassle the drivers for money. I am not sure what the legalities are of all of this but it has always bothered me in any case and I would never ever support any organization that would see the deliberate interference with traffic on public roads as the proper way to fund raise!
I was going to call the State Police and put my two cents worth in, but didn't have the time during the day. I suspected it would go on all weekend as this was a very busy one locally, but to my surprise, it was gone Sunday. Perhaps someone, or maybe several someones filed justifiable complaints before I could do so. It takes a lot of courage, or lack of clear thought, to stand in the middle of the road with loaded pulpwood trucks passing on both sides!
No matter how worthy the cause may be, somehow I don't think that deliberately stopping traffic in order to beg quarters from harrassed drivers, is the best way to cause the masses to support your endeavor!
WC
Is there truly a funding need for them to be out there in the first place?
Are the towns properly funding the firemen or is this something beyond the normal scope of firefighting budgets?
The fundraising methods are questionable, but are they a symptom of a bigger problem?
I would expect the volunteer fire department is duly incorporated per the town for liability purposes and can organize this solicitation drive for money. The only question remaining is if the municpality and local law enforcement gave thier stamp of approval as well. All per the following...
Title 29-A, section 2109. Stopping of traffic by hawkers and vendors
A person commits a traffic infraction if that person signals a moving vehicle, stops a vehicle or accosts an occupant of a vehicle stopped on a public way to solicit a contribution or subscription, or sell merchandise or a ticket of admission to an entertainment or public gathering. This section does not apply to an event or project conducted by a charitable nonprofit organization incorporated in or recognized by the State that has received municipal and local law enforcement authorization, including approval for the organization's traffic routing, schedule and procedures for the event or project.
Title 13-B, §3151. Definitions
3. Volunteer fire association. "Volunteer fire association" means an organized firefighting unit incorporated under Title 13, chapter 81, or Title 13-B, and which is officially recognized by the municipality.
A. Any volunteer fire association incorporated under either Title 13, chapter 81, or Title 13-B, on or after January 1, 1978, shall be considered incorporated for the purposes of this section.
B. The appropriation of money by a municipality toward the support of an organized firefighting unit incorporated under Title 13, chapter 81, or Title 13-B, is prima facie evidence of official recognition.
This kind of fundraising could best be described with two words - "Cheerful Strongarming." To say the motorists would feel obliged to contribute is an understatement. It smacks of shakedown, to me.
Would the firemen proffer their boots for donations at a house fire? Somehow, I doubt it. What's the difference?
There's a reason that police departments are prohibited from this kind of "benevolent extortion," and I believe the ban should extend to all public workers, whether volunteer or paid.
Reminds me of a parade I attended last year and I won't mention where. I will say this much, it was not the Baptist Church. During the parade, a certain church organization went along the parade route gathering money for its coffers while also handing out water. Now another Church was also doing a similar thing except they were just handing out water with information about their church where the label should be and no donations were collected. It will be interesting to hear if this happens again. I think what the first church did is wrong on so many different levels.
Several years ago a bunch of the volunteer firemen came to a select-men's meeting and made such a scene about working for 10 cents an hour that some were invited outside. On the outside I told one, who runs a business in town that his actions meant that I would no long trade there and I never have. Volunteer firemen do a good job and a necessary one but don't throw it in my face. They get their jollies riding around with the siren and bells, but don't try to strong arm me because I will not be happy.
The fire dept has gone from volunteer to a paid dept with a chief from away. To show you how great he is he can't even make his monthly report to the selectmen. I expect more honesty and integrity from a fire dept. than what we now get.
I'm not a fan of the voluntary roadblocks, either, but I do know that fire department budgets have been flat-funded around here for years. So if they want to raise money on their own, town officials usually don't have a problem with it.
Gaffer obviously has never gone into a burning building with a Scott air pack at 3 a.m. I did in my younger days, and I didn't get any "jollies" from it.
There are some department volunteers who do the work for selfless reasons. There are others for whom the ego trip is part of the attraction. I believe there are some of each, in most departments.
The manner of fundraising employed by the group doing roadblocks shouldn't be allowed or encouraged by any municipality - for the same reason that LEO's aren't allowed to do fundraising.
It would be the same as your child's teacher hitting you up for donations during parent-teacher conferences. It's wrong.
I think what the first church did is wrong on so many different levels.
Why?
LEO’s are allowed to raise monies for charity and non profits. They do a fine job raising money for the Maine Special Olympics.
I once did a car wash and used the local volunteer firehouse to raise money for the Maine Special Olympics the other year. In 3 hrs time we raised just over $300 and didn’t charge a specific amount, just asked for whatever they could spare as a donation. Some gave $2.00 other generously gave more. We may not be LEO’s, but we do our best to help with the fund raising for charities.
Fund raising to supplement a budget has it’s ethical dilemmas. The last I checked my town report had a line for the fire department and it’s equipment. I’d guess that training might be their biggest shortfall.
Stephen, thank you for the clarification. My comments about fundraising were directly solely to support for the department budgets, which LEO's aren't allowed to do in Maine.
USA TODAY Story
This story of of PENN TOWNSHIP, Pa takes on the issues of a modern day voluteer fire force.
"Smells and Bells" lol, thats funny...and they spend more time doing fund raising then fire calls. SO with less firemen around why didn't the cost of fire fighting go down?
Naran asks:
"Would the firemen proffer their boots for donations at a house fire? Somehow, I doubt it. What's the difference?"
In some parts of the country property owners voluntarily support fire departments with memberships. Those departments or companies go all out to assist their members with emergency medical services and to fight fires. If you are not a member, call somebody else. They respond to member properties only.
In Maine, many towns have mutual aid agreements where fire departments respond to neighboring towns by agreement. They may also respond to towns that have no agreement, but it is on a fire by fire basis. For example, one pumper was used 24 hours a day to fight a sawmill fire for over three days without stopping at a rate of $75 an hour. That's a good return for a rural fire department as long as you don't blow up the pumper's engine.
About 20 years now, i was driving though a town in Southern New England that set up fake,card board toll booths on a road with vehicles lined up to go though one by one. A town cop was at the booth entrance and teenage high school girls and their parents were out collecting money to 'help send the high school girl softball team to Florida!!!'. I guess as a reward for a winning season or something.
Were they raising funds for their department, or for a charity? Many area departments do this "boot drive" to raise money for the MDA. Either way, why not just drive by and not give if you don't want to? I really don't see it as such a huge inconvenience, as I cannot imagine it delays taffic more than a few seconds at most. Kind of hard to "strongarm" a vehicle while standing in traffic armed with a rubber boot!
Right or wrong I can tell you that they do the same thing in Florida. I also do not appreciate being shaken down in the middle of the road especially out of town.
It's very common in Mexico. traffic cones and people out on the center line collecting for Red Cross - the local first aid and ambulance service. If I drive all day in Mexico I might encounter 1, ( 2 if round trip) there's no pressure to donate.
My time isn't so valuable that slowing or stopping is a big deal. Volunteer fire departments are staffed by volunteers who give freely of their time by attending calls, drills, and doing for free what progressives would want to unionize and regulate. I'd rather have the VFD asking for an occasional donation than a regular tax to support full time services.
I'd prefer to see any fundraising done with less draconian measures than a roadblock. They could put on a BBQ, and let people voluntarily attend and make a donation. Other events of a similar nature would be far more preferable than stopping motorists on a public roadway, which smacks of a shakedown.
I think you would find that boot drives net much more than other events like barbeques that involve overhead and can get rained out. Again, simply drive by. Calling it a shakedown suggests it is more than it is.
Sorry, but I disagree. If the firefighters held their boot drive in a parking lot, where motorists could voluntarily enter, and make a donation, of their own volition, that would be different.
Forcing traffic on a public road to stop, and walking up to the car with their begging instrument is just plain distasteful, and feels like a shakedown.
Why don't we let LEO's fundraise for their own budget needs?
Naran wonders:
"Why don't we let LEO's fundraise for their own budget needs?"
Because we don't have any volunteer police departments. I think that's a good thing.
The point of my (rhetorical) question was that LEO's aren't allowed to fundraise for departmental needs because of the perception that people would feel intimidated into making donations.
I submit the same reasoning applies to roadblocks with fire department personnel (in uniform or wearing official hats) coming up to cars and requesting donations. It just doesn't sit right.
Naran, again, just drive by or if you have to stop because of traffic, just ignore them or say no. Nobody is threatening or aggressively shaking anyone down. Should vets be prohibited from selling those poppies or asking for donations at stores? How about Girl Scout cookie sales at every major shopping center? All you have to do is say no or keep driving.
Girl Scouts and Veterans do not conduct roadblocks.
Forcing traffic on a public road to stop, and walking up to the car with their begging instrument is just plain distasteful, and feels like a shakedown.
I need to comment now. Naran, I've been through this type of fund-raising "toll booth" countless times in the past 25+/- years. In each one, which were all sponsored by local volunteer fire departments, signs indicated it was a voluntary "toll booth" and no one stepped into the road to stop us. As a matter of fact, in nearly all stops, I remember they were set up where the speed limit dropped for the town center, so no one was ever 'forced' to stop, in fact, I never saw anyone leave the line-up of volunteers standing in line with boots or helmets.
As Green-ee noted above, this sure beats initiating more union jobs and higher taxes. I still like this local approach to funding the local volunteer fire departments.
Few people are aware of the huge increase in training time they put in now since mandates resulting from 9/11.
Naran, my point is that these fundraisers are no different than groups soliciting funds or selling products at the entrance/exits of stores. As a matter of fact, they are less personal as you are in a vehicle, as opposed to walking by.
BlueJay -- if you read the first post, the roadblock in question did stop traffic. I find such tactics distasteful, and believe the departments concerned should find a different way of raising the money they need. The reason they don't, is because they know the roadblocks are very effective tools for getting money from motorists.
I don't care for panhandlers spraying windshields at red lights, and I don't care for fire fighters engaging in roadblocks.
In my opening post I mentioned that the 2 activities I saw last Friday, in two different towns, both were set up on the busiest roads in their towns. And there is a very good reason for this, High traffic areas yield higher "donations".
Would we think it OK for the girl scouts to sell their cookies on the centerline of a public road? Would we think it proper for the local high school booster club to be set up on the centerline of the road, raising money for new basketball uniforms?
I think this whole thing is "unseemly" and if it is not illegal, than it should be. Public roads are primarily there for motor vehicles to get around from one place to another and nobody, no matter how good the cause, should be standing in the middle of a busy road, doing their best to hit up every passing vehicle for a donation. In Dexter they were set up at a 4 way intersection with traffic lights. It is dangerous enough to go through such an intersection, watching for pedestrians walking against the lights, people wrongly taking a right turn on red in front of you, the guy in front on his bicycle and so on. It does not have to be made worse by a bunch of volunteer firefighters, in uniform running from stopped car to stopped car, "buddy can you spare a dime"?
A steady procession of log trucks with tree length hardwood move up that road in Dover all day long, accompanied, this time of year, by large numbers of vehicles heading for Moosehead and so on. You could not pay me enough money to stand in the middle of that road for any reason.
This foolishness, and dangerous practice should be stopped. The firemen themselves ought to realize the dangers to themselves and people lawfully using the road for it's intended purpose and stop this practice. The set up in the middle of the road ONLY because they belive they can hustle more money by doing so, no other good reason that I can discern.
This practice should stop!
WC
Well, it's not illegal, and in my opinion, another law is about the last thing we need.
You're right, we don't need another law! The existing law http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/29-a/title29-Asec2109.html Should be amended to to eliminate the exception allowing it by charitables and nonprofits.
charlie
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woodcanoe:
I agree with you on two points. Our volunteer firefighters easily deserve public support. But I'm not a fan of this type of coercive fundraising. It's on par, IMO, with a cashier, after ringing up all my items, asking if I'd like to donate a dollar to some cause. I don't mind the fundraising. But there are better ways of doing it.
Best,
skf