Marine Corps General: "Marines Don't Want Gay Roommates"

Well there goes another career down the toliet,good thing he is retiring this fall.
The only issue on the table is how many senoir military leaders can we afford to loose in this administration.

We could very well end up paying a lot more per troop to attract and keep the numbers we need if don't ask don't tell is thrown out. According to the article 78 percent of Americans support allowing gays to serve; well are those people going to sign up for the Marines?

How can we afford this? We already have separate showers for men and women. Will we have to duplicate what we already have throughout the military? I can verify there isn't room aboard ships.

This should not be an issue. Soliders fighting for OUR freedom should not be made to lie about who they are. If any solider does something egregious they should be held accountable. Making a gay/lesbian soliders lie, goes directly against what they are fighting for.

I'd like to see the results of a poll confined to present and past members
of the military. I KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE 78% IN FAVOR!

When I was in the service they packed up one whole floor of the female
barracks and discharged them. All avowed Lesbians.

Treat all the same. Anyone that breaks the rules...kick them out. Gay/lesbian soliders have been fighting in the military for ages.

Let's get over it.

Charlotte there is just one thing I do not believe you understand. Thisisn't about the barracks or wonderful theories of equality or any other argument reference this issue.

It is about everything and anything that can effect the performance of a soldier in the field ,in battle ,fighting
and having to put everything on the line to accomplish the mission ,which is to nullify the enemy,we do that by killing them and breaking things, anything that gets in the way of that is not pertinent and this gets in the way of it
regardless of what is said or believed in theory. When you take it from where it is now you put something in the way.

I have no interest in fairness or equality in the military. My interest is in the military winning every war we get involved in. If the best military is an all-gay military, all women, all men, all Ukrainian or a combination of all, I don't care. If women in the military or gays in the military or Ukrainians in the military are a distraction, then kick them all out. If we must engage in social experimentation, let's keep it in the civilian population. The military isn't there to "provide careers".

Bruce...I do understand. Many of my family members have been Marines. I have a cousin shipping off to Afghanistan in a few months....I want him back safely.

This is about fighting performance...Putting everything on the line....Giving all for the USA. Like I have said, gays/lesbians have fought in the military for YEARS. They are not harming the military. What is harmful is making those very soliders ashamed of who they are. Placing them in harms way. Our government should support all of our military, not just the heterosexual military members.

Dismissing gay/lesbian qualified soliders, or interpreters...that is harming our military. Makes no sense at all.

Charlotte,
Are you for group showering, with straight men, straight women, gays and lesbians all lumped together, allowed to ogle and 'inadvertently' brush up against one another, or should they all shower seperately in their own groups, even in combat zones? Or does it make no difference to you?

charlotte wrote:

"What is harmful is making those very soliders ashamed of who they are."

LOL

Clearly, you don't know the first think about the Marines, let alone the rest of the military.

It's the D.I.s job to make certain that every recruit is "ashamed of who they are".

No charlotte, I've never experienced it myself. But, I have a real family member that served in the Marines for 30 years. I have a husband who served. You can read countless veterans' blogs where men and women are continually thanking their D.I.s for what they went through to get to the where they are. Hindsight is twenty-twenty, as they say. It was the lesson of dying to self that hone them into the efficient machine that they became.

It's not about who they are as individuals, but who they are collectively.
That includes scrubbing out those minor, nagging details that can get in the way of a unit acting as one.

IMHO, so you believe that gay/lesbian soliders will be unable to resist their fellow solider? Again, if anyone breaks the rules...kick 'em out.

LMD...They break you down and build you up again. It is all about the corps...not about you. That said, a Marine does not get kicked out when his fellow soliders know he went to visit his girlfriend. It is about pride, honor, duty. Not sexuality.

But Charlotte, since it is generally accepted, even among liberals, that gays have multiple partners and have far less self control when it comes to sexuality, wouldn't this be disruptive in the military?

Charlotte,
How about answering my question.

Will open homosexuality improve the warfighting capabilities of the US Marine Corps?

Charlotte;

Have you ever served in the military?

I am 100% against gay marriage...and I am 100% against special rights for gays..

I dont care who sleeps with who...or who is attracted to who...just leave me out of it...

Dont try to make me recognize gay partnerships as anything other than partnerships...dont try to make me accept a warped definition of "marriage"...or "couple"...Dont burden me with details about who you sleep with...or what you do in bed...and I will return the favor...

But how in the world can anyone say "No...you cant put your life on the line for your country because of who you like to sleep with..."?

Will we next give them separate drinking fountains...and lower wages...?

The separate showers argument is a crock...how many people shower in the same stall at once...? so is "it goes against their religion"...Is there some religion that says adherents cant be in the same room with a sinner...? Oh...wait...all roommates have roommates who are sinners...Do muslim marines refuse to be in the same room with pork eaters...?

There are military rules and regulations against sleeping around...and sexual harassment...so whats the problem...?

I cant find the last time the military surveyed servicemen and women to make sure they like a new policy...when was the last time they did that...?

Im for letting any one who is willing and able to defend us against enemies...to be allowed to do so...

LarryB asks: Will open homosexuality improve the warfighting capabilities of the US Marine Corps?

Not that many interested in this thread give a hoot about the facts, but the answer is "yes". See Sparta, Who Kicked Their Butt, et.al.

Or the German SS, the French Foreign Legion, the Japanese Samurai, etc.

That roomful of "avowed lesbians" who got the boot above should have been detailed to take out Al Queda. That would be hittin' 'em where it hurts. Wonder how many hundreds of thousands of dollars that piece of idiocy cost the taxpayers.

Sounds like I fall into the same category as Dolly with reguard to my feelings about gays. I don't care who sleeps with who and don't normally take part in these discussions on AMG. On that note, here's my last comments.

It's obvious from some of the posts who may have been in the military and seen the real world interaction between troops, how they live, what they have to put up with, and who is dealing with this question from a strictly academic viewpoint.

The current situation with women adds a complexity to everything.. you have to provide separate, but equal,... you name it. Plus, you must worry about who's with who, mostly to keep them apart.. but also to provide at least some measure of privacy for everyone. Romances and breakups between the troops is a problem much like those in other workplaces.. but worse . I'm not saying women shouldn't be in the military, there are some great ones, just explaining the way things are and the military has done a great job adjusting to the change.

If you add two (assuming transexuals and the questioning don't count) more "groups" you don't just double the problem. You don't just have groups who are attracted to each other you have a whole new dynamic to deal with, you have groups who may dislike each other. Even if it works out in the end, there WILL be a big adjustment period. Is now the time to make the change? We're already stressing the military to the max. We're already asking them to go above and beyond. Is it worth the risk of losing a big chunk of our military to try this social experiment? A decreased reenlistment or a decresed enlistment rate is the last thing we need right now. We also don't need to lose the senior non-coms who are over 20 and "just don't need another headache".

The military MUST succeed. We can't afford to have it fail. IMO increasing the stress on them now is the wrong thing to do.

D.M. wrote: The separate showers argument is a crock...how many people shower in the same stall at once...?

When I was in the army our shower stall could handle about 20 soldiers at once. And it often was full.

What is your point?

Were you ever in the military?

Charlotte,
When will you come out from hiding under your table and answer my question? Or are you running away from the question because you can't answer it honestly?

delete

Thrasybulus:

Openly gay men and women serve in all branches of the Israeli military, and have since 1993.

angler.k:

It was long argued that allowing blacks to serve with whites would lead to much of what you describe.

IMHo....I am not going to dignify that question....by supplying you with an answer.

Larry B...yes. The gay interpreters that were kicked out for being gay...would still be helping our military. Waste of a qualified solider. Again, this is about a solider doing their job and following orders. If anyone gets out of line...kick them out.

Perhaps things are different in the Air Force, but would anyone object to Victor Fehrenbach having your back?

Charlotte:
I knew you couldn't answer the question.
It's easy to advocate for these social experiments when you personaly don't have to suffer the consequences.
What a phoney you are!

When I was in the army our shower stall could handle about 20 soldiers at once.

Same here..There were no individual stalls , atleast for the enlisted...The field shower (tent with cold water) was about 10 at a time with a 5 minute time limit IIRC...

We don't need this in the middle of 2 wars with another looming...Social experiments can wait...

IMHO...you question was offensive.

Gay/lesbian soliders are at work in our military right now. Have we heard of 1 solider gay/lesbian kicked out for showing unwanted sexual advances on another solider? No. If any solider gets out of line...boot them.

I guess some of you support our military...unless they are gay/lesbian soliders watching your back and dying for this country.

Clearly, "charlotte"...you just don't get it.

Everyone is aware that homosexuals have been in the military and will still be in the military. Remember, you said "sexuality" isn't the issue, correct. So whether they are "in" isn't the question. We have DADT now. It's working. Even before we had DADT (as far back as WWII) that philosophy was in place and worked. Heterosexuals served with homosexuals. Everyone was aware there were homosexuals in the service. The difference is, homosexuals didn't wear their 'sexuality' as a protected class 'badge' or use it as leverage against their other soldiers.

And therein lies the rub, which you clearly don't get - or refuse to because you are willfully ignorant of the issue, as it doesn't suit your homosex activist agenda.

You wrote:
" Have we heard of 1 solider gay/lesbian kicked out for showing unwanted sexual advances on another solider? No. If any solider gets out of line...boot them. "

The above illustrates your selective ignorance of the bigger issue, which extends beyond your cleverly veiled myopic view.
Many whom have actually served in the military can assure you that you will NEVER hear of an homosexual soldier getting kicked out for showing unwanted sexual advances to another soldier (using your example here).
Why?
Of course, you won't understand or even try to understand the following as it doesn't advance your homosex activist agenda. However, here is the explaination according to many who have and are serving as we speak. (The vast majority, btw, who are perfectly fine with DADT policy...)

Once policy is changed and OPEN homosexuality is allowed, no one in their right mind will EVER suggest the above. It is obvious to those whose eyes are open to the greater issues, that an heterosexual soldier accusing an homosexual soldier of unwanted advances will automatically be accused of....drum roll, please....HOMOPHOBIA.

What will happen when OPEN homosexuals are possibly denied a promotion, or disciplined, or....? There is a much greater potential for such an individual to throw down the "protected class" card on the play and have a decision reversed, with the 'offending' officer charged with discrimination.

Yes, that's right "charlotte", whomever you really are. That's how you and yours play 'the game'.

As others have stated, leave the social experiments out of the military.

Note to Gerald W. - Drop the insulting suggestion that this issue is parallel to that of equal rights for African Americans. It isn't, for obvious reasons. At least to those who are intellectually honest in their assessments.

Charlotte,

You obviously have no answer to my perfectly reasonable question (post #10).

Nice dancing though.

Charlotte, simple non offensive and (assuming non identifiable) question. What do your relatives who are Marines think of the issue?