Do you just have a problem with cops retiring and having the option to get another job as a cop or do you apply this to all Government employees that retire from one job and collect a different pension?
Why not any person and/or company that does any business with the State?
That is already on the site.
Can someone give me a reason why my name must be listed when I am not in management and not a department head?
Because you are a State employee and you work for the taxpayers. Shouldn't your employers be able to find out what you make?
I have a problem with any double dipping, but it is worse with cops because they can retire at a younger age than other government employees.
I think we should end defined benefit pensions and move to a defined contributed plan like a 401K with Social Security then this would no longer be an issue.
One reason to tie the pay to a person is that it allows the double-dippers to be identified.
Another reason for the inclusion of names is to confirm and address the corruption we have within our state government. If you can't tie state monies directly to the inappropriate expenditures, the problems will never be exposed and resolved. It's called accountability, and we need to bring it back to Augusta.
The companies that do business I did not find. My bad. How about those that receive any type of Government Welfare? Are they also not State Employees that actually donâ€™t put any hours in?
Cops and Military personal can retire at an early age. Cops number one killer is still suicide. Some retire and move on to other departments. Most retire and move onto other professions. Most have had their fill of dealing with the worst of society. The life expectancy for a police officer after retirement is lower than any other profession.
I do agree about he 401. You get the State to offer the program I would love to have more control of the fate of my retirement.
I will just have to disagree with you about my name being posted until they post everyoneâ€™s names that are involved with Government funding.
Thank you for your insight and for putting up with my first post. I will work on being as clear a possible with my future post.
Old Devil Dog ;
Welcome to AMG. Learn this lesson.
You are a pig at the trough of the government.
You have no opinion on this matter that will change anyones thinking.
You have committed the sin of choosing to be a public employee.
You have retirement and health insurance!
You must immediately retreat and submit yourself to the fact that there is no winning this argument!
Dan has spoken you have no point!
MHPC is god all mighty of information desemination!
Transparency is the end all and is now provided in the coveinence of ones living room!
MHPC doesn't like welfare receipiants either but they haven't gotten to that.
Very Good point though noone has brought that idea up!
Nice idea about 401 K's.I have adovcated that for years to unions!
That falls into creative change for public employment.
And once again welcome join all threads and enjoy we do all have fun with this and it is very
Please arrest alot of criminals so I can continuie to work and increase my retirement! :) :) :) :)
Bruce, you are too funny! Welcome Old Devil Dog, it's good to have you aboard.
Thank You Mark :)
By the way Old Devil Dog your glorious first post has succeeded in
a new(at least to me)term being assigned as a responce to your posts.
"Horse Farts" :!: I must admit I have been called alot of things in my career
but never have I had that said about me, you should feel honored, I think!
Bruce, Mark, Naran, Town Manager, Dan and Leftout thank you for your kind words. I must say that I do not know if I will ever recover from â€œhorse fartsâ€. I am too old and salty to let words cut through my shell. I do say that if I would have heard my Drill Instructors at Paris Island call me or tell me â€œhorse fartsâ€. I might have been done in. I know I am not here to change anyoneâ€™s mind. But I will never apologize for my 24 years of Government service. Yes I the hated State Employee, also serve to protect our Freedoms.
Last two points of the night. First, if Law Enforcement has it so good than why are we struggling to fill our ranks? I welcome all who think that it is the gravy job to pick up an application and join me. Actions do speak louder than words, and it is awfully quiet.
I have heard a thousand times that â€œI pay your salaryâ€. Good point. But I also pay taxes and have the same rights to say what I feel is best to do with them.
â€œCommon Senseâ€ is a rare psychological disorder that does not afflict a large portion of the population.
Who suggested that you did not have a right to express your opinion?
Here is an article from Sunday's Boston Globe that is the result of the public having full access to public salary data.
The default position must be that the public has a right to know.
If anything is to be hidden, there must be a strong reason for it.
So far, nobody has offered such a reason.
If I am reading your post correctly, you are upset that a State Employee can retire from one State job, collect retirement and then get another State job without loosing his retirement. This is all within the laws in Maine. Hiring a retired Sate Employee saves the new State Job from having to pay for Health Insurance. The retirement account pays for this. If you do not like this than you have a problem with the process not the person.
If a Law Enforcement Officer retires from one Job and gets hired at another one, you call this double dipping. No he is not. He has met his obligation to his first contract and is currently fulfilling another. He is following the rules. This again is the process not the person. No names needed. Again if not them filling the ranks than who? Just let me know whom. I carry applications all the time.
The rules are wrong.
The Globe story illustrates the problem.
If names can be hidden so can abuses of the system.
Dan's last sentence says it all and deserves to be in a bold font:
MPBN Story on this Bill
Public Salaries Website Causes Privacy Dispute
April 10, 2009Â Â Â Â Reported By: A.J. Higgins
Republicans like Rep. Doug Thomas, of Ripley, don't have much sympathy for state employees who feel embarassed by having their names and salaries on the Internet. "You know, some of those employees ought to be embarrassed at the salaries that they get, and it ought to be public," Thomas says.
Read and Listen to this News Report
If you donâ€™t like the system, than I have no argument with you. If you use the name for personal attacks, than I have a problem. If someone is abusing they system outside the rules, by all means go after them. If they are playing within the rules, go after the system.
Listing the names of all employees is just a small step. If you want true transparency, have the State audited by an independent source. Everyone that works for the State knows that if a real audit could be done starting with the largest Department within the State, than real savings and reform could begin. When this can happen than I know that the State is getting serious and I would not have the problem that I do knowing that ALL the laundry is out to dry where everyone can see.
Everyone have a great day. It looks like the sun is making an appearance.
And that is the problem!!!!!
Rep. Thomas in the way he thinks about it , is part of the problem either directly or on indirectly ,
through inaction or inability to get enough fellow votes to make any significant change!
Let me share this , at least we as employees share something in common with most elected officals!
Many times we have attempted to commiunicate to the members of legislatiure our concerns
and ususally we get vacant non substantive political accuses for their actions.
We are embarassed by the product they produce , and feel their compensation is excessive for it and they ought to be ashamed!
The sidebar to this whole issue is it attitudes like this and statements like this , has for years driven
employees , to the unions and the democrats!!
I will say they lie to us but it at least comes across to the unknowing that it is somewhat caring
and respectful the above quote is not.
Rep. Thomas when you submit creative alterenatives to the legislature to change employment practices
for future savings etc. your voice will obtain more credibility!
Rep. Thomas & creative alterenatives & credibility!
Bruce....I think there is an oxymoron in there somewhere.
TM I know but have to keep the thread going to it's true solution
which is just that.
Example many years ago I could have been bought out in 1991 layoffs.For a sum of 3200 dollars I would have retired gladly
and moved on. Instead I returned to work started over again. I walked back in the door with 680 hrs, of accumulated sick time and w/in 60 days was making two days a month vacation time! That would have been crerative.
The real cost of employees as indentified by MHPC is longterm employees aside from sheer numbers.. With senority and longevity the cost goes up!
Remember the legislature creates and funds every position,Even if one doesn't vote for it they have to accept the responsibility!
It is a well-deserved award, and we appreciate the work that the Heritage Policy Center put in to creating a site that allows public documents to really be public. It is important that taxpayers know where tax dollars are going and what public employees are paid for salaries. That's our money, and it matters now more than ever that we know how it is spent.
No matter one's political values or opinions about the policy center's viewpoints, one cannot quibble with its efforts in casting a ray of light onto government spending in Maine. It's a long overdue exercise, and an admirable use of the Internet.
They don't care that we the rabble do most of the working, paying, living and dying.
The pay of employees in Maine has always been public. A review of town reports in the 1800s listed every person who was paid a dime by the towns. Residents had to vote on the salaries of the town employees....
If the salaries of employees are confidential then what will come next? This is not a slippery slope. This is an ice covered cliff that we have been pushed over the edge of to fall into the chasm of darkness.
Any legislator who supports this legislation needs to be held accountable at election time.
There is a difference, however, between the public's right to know about the state's finances and voyeurism.
Defining a staff position, and detailing how much the government pays for that position or service, is responsible transparency.
Posting the name of every public employee and their salary crosses the line.
Here again we see the real problem in this issue.
The whole thing is predicated on the assumption that something has to wrong corrupt etc. etc..
If you talk this enough that becomes the point,not any factual basis for the feelings.
Sooner or later the discussion is driven by he assumption.
By the way retire /rehire has been modified to essentially do away with it for state employees.
Now if a member of a participating district teacher or town member were to retire and go to work for
state they could collect another benefit! Another popint here is whether one agrees or not
the fact that one has to meet certain criteria for a benefit leads or supports the concept of it being earned.
By the way take a field trip to the State Office BUilding ,known as THE GREAT SOB, and reveiw job descriptions for employees. When you look at some of the lower ranges for pay they are low.
But never let any facts get in the way.
Here again we see the real problem in this issue.
The whole thing is predicated on the assumption that something has to wrong corrupt etc. etc.
That is not the assumption.
But if information can be hidden from the public, it makes it easier to do something that is wrong or corrupt.
If I give more than $50 to a candidate or a political action committee, or am paid any amount by a candidate or a political action committee, that must be disclosed and is available for anyone to see on the web.
If Sen. Marrache has her way, it would be private what a government lawyer is paid. But if I am paid $1000 by a PAC that is something that must be publicly disclosed.
How does that make any sense?
It doesn't Dan because that all involves private money and as long as you earned it, came in possession of it legally it
is no ones' business IMHO.
Yes, public funds are and should be disclosed, not secret etc..
As I have said right along and the truth is all MHPC did was not disclose private secret information.
They published it in an easy to find/view manner. Essentially enabling the lazy uncaring unknowing
a more convenient method of finding out something that was a little more diffulcult in past!
The disclosure is fine,IMHO , the utilization of the information in all to many incidences
amount to "Horse Farts"!
"I do not intend that the bill would prohibit the release of this information for someone with valid reasons. Any information concerning individuals and their salaries will still be available through a Freedom of Information Act request, it just won't be published."
The good Senator from Waterville either has no understanding of what her own bill would do, or she is lying. It is absolutely untrue that this information would still be available through a Freedom of Access Act (FOAA)* request. Her bill specifically removes it from the FOAA definition of "public information" by making it "confidential." This bill specifically makes this public information unavailable through a FOAA request. I cannot imagine that this legislator has introduced a bill to specifically make this information unavailable throug a FOAA request without knowing that the bill makes this information unavailable through a FOAA request. To submit a bill to censor this public information from the public is bad enough. But to then have the unmitigated gall to deceive the public by publishing untruths and false assurances that this bill will not do exactly what it will (and is intended to) do, is sickening.
*(I would also note that the Senator erroneously refers to the "Freedom of Information Act," which is a federal statute that deals with the release of public information held by federal government agencies, and has no application here. The statute she endeavors to undermine with this bill is a state statute, known as the Freedom of Access Act.)
After reviewing this thread, I'll throw my two cents in, especially in response to something Bruce mentioned.
1. If someone chose to work for tax payer's money, then name, title, and department should be available.
2. Bruce mentions 680 hours of accumulated sick time and 2 days a month of earned vacation time.
Now, I want to see the benefit package I am paying for these employees to have. An employee can accumulate 17 weeks of sick time? Sick time? Do they have short and long term disability as well? Who pays that premium if they do? The majority (not all, but certainly a majority) of private businesses have a use it/lose it sick time policy or a maximum earned. 24 vacation days a year? Is there a cap there? Can a state employee accumulate 17 weeks or more of vacation? Can they cash sick/vacation time in for $$$ when they want?
Yep, the more I think about it, the more I want to know, and make it public so I can see and share it.
jcmcards, you might want to have a seat for this one...as that is just the tip of the iceberg.
Click Here to read some of the fine print for all of the Cadillac-style benefits which We The People provide for state employees. Although I do believe the majority of state workers work hard and earn every benefit they get, in light of what I witnessed for 6-years within Maine State Government, there is also a large group of folks which don't deserve these benefits. It's time for those folks to get fired!
Mark....thanks for that link.
Dear Governor JB,
Enclosed please find my resume for any job, even one I do not qualify for(wink,wink)....part-time or even intermittent is fine. Obviously I will get the same benefits as those employed full time. I especially am looking forward to having my clothes, boots and laundry service provided. In return, feel free to post my name and salary on the public rolls. It's the least I can do to say thank you.
Marrache's legislation would put this state back into the dark ages, with respect to Maine's Freedom of Access law. We encourage her and the bill's co-sponsors to sign up for a refresher course on the requirements of that law and their obligations to the public. Sunshine and transparency are the guiding principles â€” not secrecy and hiding names.
I have to admit I was shocked!