MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

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oneshot
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Jeff Weinstein the president of the Maine Gun Owners Association and self proclaimed firearms "expert" recently asked Senator Karl Turner to introduce legislation that would require anyone who wished to get a Maine state concealed firearms permit to take a special "personal protection" course before being able to obtain the permit. In turn well know Anti-gunner Eathan strimling jumped at the opportunity to cosponsor this legisation in an attempt to make it more difficult and costly for the average person to obtain this right to carry a firearm.

Unfortunately Weinstein has used Senator Karl Turner, who is a good pro-gun representative, as the catalyst to promote his own objective. Please call Senator Turner at 287-1505 and politely explain to him we do not need this legislation to go any further. Also, understand unfortunately Senator Turner believed that Maine firearms owners supported this legislation, so when calling him please show him the respect that he deserves.

Also, as a side note I am a personal protection instructor who would benefit from this legislation also, and I DO NOT SUPPORT IT!

BlueJay
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Thanks for this important information, oneshot. I hope Sen. Turner gets a lot of calls and emails about this bill and might hopefully withdraw the bill.

Anonymous
MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Before anybody jumps to erroneous conclusions about the value of the proposed bill, I suggest that everyone interested (1) read the bill (currently in its rough-draft stage and subject to revision in committee), and (2) consider the reasons for the bill's submission, which will be made clearer as the hearing approaches.

I assure you that the thrust of the bill is in the interests of all responsible gun owners.

Jeff Weinstein, President
Maine Gun Owners Association Inc
www.MGOA.com

pmh
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

To track legislation introduced by Turner or any other Senator (the above-mentioned bill is not yet posted) go here:

http://www.maine.gov/legis/senate/senators/index.htm

To track any member of the legislature, the bills they sponsor, their email addresses for home & Augusta, committee assignments, etc., go here:

http://janus.state.me.us/legis/

Editor
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Jeff -

Since it appears the bill is not yet available in print form can you please give a summary of the bill and why you think it's a good idea?

Thank you

skf

bryce
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

I propose renaming the bill to the "Professional firearms instructors preservation act.".

Mike Travers
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

The power of the government to force you to prove competency before you're allowed to exercise your "rights" shall not be infringed.

Tom C
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

If this gun provides ANY additional requirements or restrictions on exercise of 2nd amendment, then it should be vigorously opposed. Jeff should know that.

If left to the legislature - we would be "common sense legislation"ed right out of our RTBA.

Tony Bessey
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote="LibertyJeff"]Before anybody jumps to erroneous conclusions about the value of the proposed bill, I suggest that everyone interested (1) read the bill (currently in its rough-draft stage and subject to revision in committee), and (2) consider the reasons for the bill's submission, which will be made clearer as the hearing approaches.

I assure you that the thrust of the bill is in the interests of all responsible gun owners.

Jeff Weinstein, President
Maine Gun Owners Association Inc
www.MGOA.com[/quote]

This really does not look that great Jeff. I understand why you think the class should be taught, but I also see the value of letting the individual issuing officers make that call. On the flip side the conflict of interest here is rather interesting. The value of this billis simply that you have approached a legislator about the bill and you are an NRA Certified firearms instructor who teaches the said "personal protection" course. This is the very reason why I would not join the MGOA and once again I have to seriously rethink my NRA membership.

Tony

pmh
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Mike,

If it weren't (reasonably) apparent you had your tongue FIRMLY in cheek, we'd contact Guido The Enforcer......

A bill, or any sort of Legislative proposal in "its rough-draft status," has as much veracity as, well, a politician's promise . . . . .;

Anonymous
MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

ONESHOT~ Seeing your first anonymous post here on AMG; What specific language in the bill do you oppose?

Welcome to AMG

JIMV
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

I have taken the course twice and my wife has once. I found it to be informative and not at all a burden. The part about guns and the law is particuarly valuable.

I have had this argument before, but it still bears repeating. There is nothing in the second amendment or in the debates surrounding it that suports a 'right' to concealed carry. In fact, almost all early firearms state law, passed by the same folk who debated and ratifed the US Constitution as well as their own state constitutions, concerned restrictions on carrying weapons concealed.

The 2nd amendment recognizes a pretty unlimited right to keep arms and a right to bear them. it does not provide a right to carry them concealed. That is and has been a matter for state law, state constitutions, and state governance for over 200 years. In fact, we have more freedom today to carry concealed then we have ever had.

We do ourselves no service when we pertend to have a 2nd amendment right that has never been recognized by the courts and was never debated by the founders.

Editor
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

FOR THE RECORD -

I've contacted "oneshot" asking that the needless conjecture about Jeff W. be removed from the original post. I think "oneshot's" objections to this bill can be made by sticking to the facts. If "oneshot" does not edit the original post - this thread will disappear until I can rewrite "oneshot's" post.

skf

Barry Sturk
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

I just what to say that the NRA is vehemently opposed to any bill that sets a standard like this bill would, according to Carl Turner, set because it would be seen as self-serving to the organization(NRA) and we do not want that to happen! The current law the way that it stands is just fine and that is the position of the NRA.

Roger Ek
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

This bill would require a former military small arms champion to take Weinstein's course. I bet the JPFO would oppose this bill. The average citizen already knows enough to learn the proper use of firearms. The below average citizen may not, but you can't legislate against stupidity. This is a bad bill and ought to be killed in committee. No amendments, no study, just kill the bill.

Anonymous
MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

SKF~ Jeff has thick skin. He can defend his actions on the merits of the legislation.

We all see the intent of the post and AMG is better for it. That is why I asked oneshot what specific language in the legislation was he opposed to?

Virgil Kane
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Jimv-
Whether carrying concealed is within the paramaters of the right or not, you must acknowledge that a government administered permitting process for carrying concealed places a burden the ability to do so. Gun owners can certainly take a side in the political process to oppose legislation that would impose such burdens.

democrat
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

This bill is not in "rough draft status"!! It is LD 778. It is most definitely an anti-gun bill. In deference to the editor's admonition, I won't speak to the motives of its proponents. Judge for yourselves the content.
Most importantly, the bill would require [b]all[/b] applicants for a CWP to take a very specific course, [b]even if an applicant has already held a CWP[/b]!! It even requires veterans and active duty servicemen and women who have taken the Armed Services firearms training to take this course before getting a CWP.
It also requires taking the course in order to renew a CWP!

In other words, the goal of the bill is to make it much more difficult to get a CWP. It doesn't even require that such courses be taught in Maine.

JimV, I disagree with your assertion that because the Constitution doesn't specifically mention bearing arms "concealed" that it doesn't apply here. The constitutions of the U.S. and Maine don't address the issue. They simply allow one to bear arms - I would argue concealed or unconcealed, and it would be unconstitutional to unreasonably interfere with that right.

For the text of the bill, go here. [url=http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawMakerWeb/externalsiteframe.asp?ID=2800...

rklindell
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

I like the Vermont approach.

oneshot
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Clarify Position on MGOA Pres

I think in hind sight that maybe I was a bit harsh in an attempt notify people about this legislation. So I will give some facts. 1. Jeff Weinstein advertises "The next NRA Personal Protection Course is scheduled for.......in Yarmouth. This is an essential course for anyone considering employing a firearm for self-defense. It's also the premier "prerequisite" course for persons interested in obtaining a Maine Concealed Firearms Permit." This is not true in the Maine state law as it reads now! 2. Jeff is an instrtructor not a Rep for the NRA, who went to Sen Turner and asked for the law to be changed so that the above statement would be true. 3. This bill has now opened a door that Senator Ethan Strimling has jumped through and this has made the current law a problem in his eyes! Is this how we in the firearms community act? Does this make it better or does it make more firearms rules (laws) that we do not NEED!

Bigshooter
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[b]Woah! I need to see the text of this bill. [/b]

Maine is a "Shall Issue" State and I hate to see anything (at least on the surface) that makes it more difficult for a resident to obtain their carry permit. I am a certified instructor in many disciplines ranging from "Law Enforcement Chemical Aerosol Instructor" to "Personal Protection Instructor" and I have yet to find any CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) handing out carry permits to people who they do not feel qualified. As a matter of fact, I can relay some nightmares where some Chiefs refuse to issue permits to people EXTREMELY qualified, just because they don't fit their personal definition of 'proficient." There are abuses already happening and it would not serve the citizens well to make it tougher, if that is what will be happening with this legislation.

Knowing that Strimling (ie: [i]Sarah Brady with loose long pants[/i]) signed onto this Bill is reason enough for the rubber stamp. I will be doing some heavy research here as soon as I can come up for air in the accounting project I am working on and in the meantime, please post anything relating to this here as I will be checking in on occasion.

Jeff W, this doesn't sound very good on the surface and I am quite concerned with anything that Strimling doesn't fight tooth and nail to oppose. I will call you a little later to get the scoop but in the meantime I would be cautious of who I asked for support. [b][i]After Strimling's real intentions came out last year calling for the confiscation, seizure and abandonment of legal and lawfully owned private property, I would personally ask that any bill I was involved in be pulled if his name appeared on it in any way.[/i][/b] You are on top of things enough to know where his alliance is. If he is supporting it, that should raise big, giant, loud bells and whistles.

Cigarsmoker
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I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS BILL

I just read the text of the bill. Nope, it is definitely another way to limit the ordinary citizen's ability to have a concealed carry permit. Much worse, it is an insult to our veterans and law enforcement communities by telling them that they are not competent to carry a concealed weapon, despite their training. Nope, a bad bill in my opinion. :x

Anonymous
MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

I'm with rklindell in support of a Vermont style approach. It is outrageous that we must prove to the government that we are capable, before we can exercise a God Given Right.

Naran
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

This proposed law reminds me of the enforced driver's education for anyone in Maine under 18. One day over 18, and miraculously, you now somehow don't need to fork over the $400 for driver's ed (that's how much it is down here). One day under 18? Pay up, or no license.

How much would this new legislation add to the cost for anyone to obtain a concealed carry permit?

Anonymous
MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote][b](5) Demonstrates to the issuing authority a knowledge of handgun safety. The applicant may fully satisfy this requirement by submitting to the issuing authority, through documentation in accordance with this subparagraph, proof that the applicant has within 5 years prior to the date of application completed a course that included handgun safety offered by or under the supervision of a federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement agency or a firearms instructor certified by a private firearms association recognized as knowledgeable in matters of firearms safety by the issuing authority or by the state in which the course was taken. A course completion certificate or other document, or a photocopy, is sufficient if it recites or otherwise demonstrates that the course meets all of the requirements of this subparagraph.
As an alternative way of fully satisfying this requirement, an applicant may personally demonstrate knowledge of handgun safety to an issuing authority, if the issuing authority is willing to evaluate an applicant's personal demonstration of such knowledge. The issuing authority is not required to offer this 2nd option.
The demonstration of knowledge of handgun safety to the issuing authority may not be required of any applicant who holds a valid State permit to carry a concealed firearm as of April 15, 1990 or of any applicant who was or is in any of the Armed Forces of the United States and has received at least basic firearms training.
[1993, c. 524, §8 (amd); 2005, c. 236, §§3, 4 (rev).]

[2003, c. 341, §§3, 4 (amd); 2005, c. 236, §§3, 4 (rev).][/b][/quote]

[url=http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/25/title25sec2003.html]MAINE CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT REQIUREMENTS[/url]

...---...
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[size=24]KILL THE BILL!!!

SHAME ON WEINSTEIN!!!

TALK ABOUT SELF PROMOTION!!!

ANOTHER SO CALLED PRO GUN PERSON

GOING OVER TO THE DARK SIDE.

THIS DOES NOT BODE WELL.[/size]

[size=7]Why on earth give Strimling and his fellow slime an open door? [/size]

JimP
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Pretty sad day when a gun group starts asking for restrictions. I learned combat arms in the military, I have spent countless hours on the range with professional military instruction. A big part of the training was geared toward the ROE. and use of deadly force. Why should I have to pay money to get training that I am certain is substandard to the training I received in the military. I cannot support this.

JIMV
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote="Virgil Kane"]Jimv-
Whether carrying concealed is within the paramaters of the right or not, you must acknowledge that a government administered permitting process for carrying concealed places a burden the ability to do so. Gun owners can certainly take a side in the political process to oppose legislation that would impose such burdens.[/quote]

I agree witht hat BUT, we cannot hang our heads on outrage over a 'right' being regulated when such a right has never existed.

I have permits from two states. I cannot imagine going back to where we were (helpless targets for societys preditors) 20 years ago, but our success has been in state law based on state constitutions and a state process.

When we pretend a federal constitutional right encompases stuff it doesn't, then we do not make a good argument and act like supporters of Roe, finding 'rights' where none exist.

Peter
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

whats below average?
and would Rudy Suport this law?

JIMV
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote]JimV, I disagree with your assertion that because the Constitution doesn't specifically mention bearing arms "concealed" that it doesn't apply here. The constitutions of the U.S. and Maine don't address the issue. They simply allow one to bear arms - I would argue concealed or unconcealed, and it would be unconstitutional to unreasonably interfere with that right. [/quote]

That is what i thought before I really, deeply, dug into the history of the idea. if conceled carry was the intent of the foudners, why is there no record of such a discussion and why did those same folk, in their state legislatures, pass laws that limited the practice?

I would love to find a good, definitive record of a debate on the issue by our founders. All I have found are legislation and early court decisions almost all of which support a state power of regualtion.

mainemom
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

The question I ask first when I see a bill like this is, what problem does this bill purport to solve?
IF you can't demonstrate that there's a pressing problem, then don't ask us to embrace your solution as a matter of law.

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