MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

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Catherine
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Jeff Weinstein is a man of integrity. He believes in the 2nd amendment and any suggestion otherwise is just plan wrong.

Roger Ek
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

OK, I'll buy that you think Jeff is a good guy. Maybe he really does not intend to attack me and all the rest of Maine's gun owners. However, he made a really big and really dumb mistake. Now he needs to spend the next few years repairing the damage he has done.

Editor
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[i]Editor’s Note: I moved this post from another thread.[/i]

Posted by: trader111

An Act To Enhance the Qualifications for a Concealed Firearm 
...Permit. (LD 778)

"This bill requires all new applicants and renewing holders of a concealed firearms permit to show documentation they have completed a firearms safety course that includes relevant state and federal law, basic defensive marksmanship, gun safety, civic responsibility, appropriate conduct while carrying a firearm and the moral and ethical issues surrounding the potential use of firearms as a means of self-defense. This bill also removes exemptions to current handgun safety course requirements for an applicant or holder of a concealed firearms permit who can personally demonstrate knowledge of the subject matter of the course requirements and a person who received basic firearms training as a member of the Armed Forces of the United States. Finally, this bill directs the Department of Public Safety to adopt rules to establish requirements with specific components for a 6-hour instruction course in firearms safety."

Sponsored By: Senator TURNER of Cumberland
Cosponsored By: Representative FLOOD of Winthrop, Senator STRIMLING of Cumberland, Representative WOODBURY of Yarmouth

[url=http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawMakerWeb/summary.asp?ID=280023353]Sour...

Robert
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote]This bill also removes exemptions to current handgun safety course requirements for an applicant or holder of a concealed firearms permit who can personally demonstrate knowledge of the subject matter of the course requirements and a person who received basic firearms training as a member of the Armed Forces of the United States. [/quote]

Does this mean military training is not good enough for Jeff?

Mike Travers
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

I called and left a message for Senator Turner. Now that I've read the bill, I don't think One-shot was over the line in ascribing ulterior motives to Jeff. I've had a carry permit for over 25 years with no "issues" and I'm suddenly supposed to take time out of my busy schedule and money out of my depleted bank account? To what end? Being able to demonstrate proficiency and knowledge of laws and ethics isn't enough; you still need to take the course?
I've known Jeff for a while and like him, but I don't like this particular action of his. Maybe I'll contact my Senator and push for another law. In order to teach firearms courses in the State of Maine, you need to take a course on abuse of government power every year. I'll teach it. If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

oneshot
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Here come the Maine Citizens Against Handgun Violence

[quote="Catherine8679"]Jeff Weinstein is a man of integrity. He believes in the 2nd amendment and any suggestion otherwise is just plan wrong.[/quote]

In my first post I did not mean to come accross in a derogatory manner against Weinstein and insinuate that he was in any way stupid but with that said the proposed L.D. 778 is in fact a very ill conceived bill and I don't think that it was well thought out, at least I am hoping that it wasn't in Weinstein's defense. If he truly believes in the second amendment this bill WOULD NOT have been proposed, and if it is such a pro-2nd amendment bill then why is the NRA so vehemently opposed to it? It sounds like the people from the Maine Citizens Against Handgun Violence are here showing their support for Weinstein's Bill!

Bigshooter
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote="Earlier Thread"]

An Act To Enhance the Qualifications for a Concealed Firearm 
...Permit. (LD 778)

"SNIP...This bill also removes exemptions to current handgun safety course requirements for an applicant or holder of a concealed firearms permit who can personally demonstrate knowledge of the subject matter of the course requirements and a person who received basic firearms training as a member of the Armed Forces of the United States. .....SNIP."

[url=http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawMakerWeb/summary.asp?ID=280023353]Sour...

I have firearms credentials coming out my ears and right now I can legally carry in almost 30 States. If I take this wording at face value I man not even qualify for a CCW renewal here in Maine.

Tell me again how this doesn't make it tougher for law abiding citizens to protect themselves.......

AND, what was that co-sponsors name again? Wasn't it [b]STRIMLING[/b], the guy who has made it clear that he wants to [b][i]ban and confiscate legally owned firearms?[/i][/b] I can't wait for a quick break to call Jeff W. about this one. None of this is making any sense.

Catherine
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

I spoke with Jeff about this today and he has a very reasoned and well thought out argument.

I think that jumping to conclusions and attacking his integrity is low!

I encourage anyone and everyone with questions to speak with him about it directly.

Naran
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

What's the average cost of a course such as the bill would require to qualify for the concealed permit?

Robert
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

A friend just went through the course Naran. 50 bucks. Then, what is it, 35 bucks for the permit?

JimP
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Well if he has an argument lets hear it. What I am hearing I don't like.

Robert
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

What ever happened to section 16 of the Maine state constitution? [quote]Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.

[/quote]

Peter
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

if thats true, then this bill is clearly unconstitutional.

Mike Travers
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote="Naran"]What's the average cost of a course such as the bill would require to qualify for the concealed permit?[/quote]

It isn't just the dollar cost, Naran, it's the time as well. It's not unreasonable to expect someone just applying for a carry permit to prove they're knowledgeable about concealed carry laws and practices. Using the force of law to ensure that the [b]only[/b] acceptable way to do this is to take a course which you happen to teach, and to further require it of [b]renewals[/b] of an existing carry permit would seem, on its' surface at least, to smack of avarice. I wait for Jeff's explanation with bated breath.

J Fred
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Jeff blew it.

This is about feathering his bed while chipping away
at our God-given rights.

Shame on you, Jeff....

Mike Travers
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

C'mon J Fred. Tell us what you really think.

thejohnchapman
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

If everyone received appropriate training in the school system, this bill would not be up for discussion. I don't think anybody is arguing that training is "bad". The NRA offers it, so they must think it is good.

The real and central issue is trust of the government to administer such a program. Most of those posting here do not trust the government to promote training without using it as a subterfuge for future confiscation.

That is a VERY valid concern.

I don't distrust Jeff's motives. However, I believe that Ethan truly does not like the Second Amendment. How does one get the benefits of broadly - distributed training without a real risk of government confiscation?

PS: As many of you know from personal experience, I help Jeff teach part of his course. It isn't free.

PPS: One of the best ways to make sure something thrives and endures is to give as many people as possible an economic stake in same. If we had a thousand entities who depended for part of their revenue on private firearms ownership / training, it would be harder to get rid of than if NOBODY benefitted. It is why I have mused here about putting ALL firearms sales with licensees.

You want as many PAID lobbyists opposing confiscation as possible. They won't be PAID as much, if the dollars are not there to PAY them.

Those are just my thoughts, as one who trains both civilians and police in the use of force, for pay. I would love to see a way to get universal competence without a risk of confiscation. Moreover, I'd love to see a PRIVATE industry with existence independent of the government, and in a real sense hostile to confiscation by the government.

Actually getting both isn't easy.

Tom C
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

It ain't broke.

Don't fix it.

Anonymous
MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote="JIMV"]
I agree witht hat BUT, we cannot hang our heads on outrage over a 'right' being regulated when such a right has never existed.

I have permits from two states. I cannot imagine going back to where we were (helpless targets for societys preditors) 20 years ago, but our success has been in state law based on state constitutions and a state process.[/quote]

JIMV, have we really been that successful? I remember several years ago a man visited an event in Portlands Deering Oaks, carrying an exposed handgun. The city confiscated it from him, even though he was breaking NO LAW.

An armed society is a polite society. :wink:

Mike G
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Re: Jeff blew it.

[quote="J Fred"]This is about feathering his bed while chipping away
at our God-given rights.

Shame on you, Jeff....[/quote]

Ditto

Mark T. Cenci
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote="IndianScout101"][quote="JIMV"]
I agree witht hat BUT, we cannot hang our heads on outrage over a 'right' being regulated when such a right has never existed.

I have permits from two states. I cannot imagine going back to where we were (helpless targets for societys preditors) 20 years ago, but our success has been in state law based on state constitutions and a state process.[/quote]

JIMV, have we really been that successful? I remember several years ago a man visited an event in Portlands Deering Oaks, carrying an exposed handgun. The city confiscated it from him, even though he was breaking NO LAW.

An armed society is a polite society. :wink:[/quote]

Bruce Mayberry of Windham. That was pure Chitwood.

landry
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

I have held a CCW since1958. I have owned, carried and used a gun for over 70 years and now I must take lessons? This bill would require me to spend good money to use my 2nd amendment rights? How many gun laws will this make? 20,001 or more? Stupidity knows no bounds. Is it now time to drop my membership in the GOA?
Bud Landry

Anonymous
MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote="Mark T. Cenci"]Bruce Mayberry of Windham. That was pure Chitwood.[/quote]

Exactly Mark, pure Chitwood who loved stomping on our constitutional rights under the cover of government, and one of many reasons govenments should not set the standards of how we carry.

Mike Lange
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

After the screwing Karl Turner and Peter Mills put to the private clubs on the smoking issues, I wouldn't support anything they sponsor. They can't be trusted.

landry
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

Is Jeff Weinstein now getting into bed with Jim Zumbo? Will Jeff start to speak and ask for legislation against "assault Weapons" next? Will the national GOA be backing Jeff's bill? I believe I will drop my membership in the GOA until I get some answers. I do not want my membership dues supporting anti-gun legislation.
Bud Landry

JIMV
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

[quote]JIMV, have we really been that successful? I remember several years ago a man visited an event in Portlands Deering Oaks, carrying an exposed handgun. The city confiscated it from him, even though he was breaking NO LAW.[/quote]

Chitwood got away with such things because no one with money went after him directly over any of these events. If he had been sued, personally or if he had been prosecuted under federal law (title 18 - basically operating in an illegal way under the color of his office), then the excess would stop.

Look at Nagan in New Orleans. He is in pretty big trouble, personal trouble, for ignoring the law and ignoring court orders.

The law does not only work one way, with the government using it as a hammer to force folk to do things they otherwise would not do. It also serves to force that government to do its job and holds that government accountable if it doesn't.

The problem is, as in all things, that the law also requires money. The government has unlimitied resources stolen from US. We only have our own resources, limited at best.

There are now perhaps 37 states that have returned freedom to their citizens with forms of must issue concealed carry. It took decades but that is where we stand today. The expected results by nutters like the brady Bunch never occurred and, in fact, crime mostly went down. Imagine Congress doing the right thing!

never happen. If they did mandate reciprocity, they would get the idea thay had the power to also mandate a national cessation of permits. Now which do you believe is the more likely, a congress that will uphold our rights or one that will limit or remove it?

BlueJay
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Legislators misled about LD 778

I just heard back from my rep who signed on to this bill. He said they were originally led to believe that the NRA and gun owners were in support of this bill. He met today with NRA staff and learned otherwise, admitting that the bill sounds rather self-serving. Shame on Weinstein. I hope it's withdrawn or killed in committee.

[color=blue]mainemom is right - essentially, is there really a problem that this legislation can fix?[/color]. [color=red]How many murders have been committed by CWP holders? [/color]

laMaine
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MGOA Pres Weinstein Backs Bill with Anti-gunner Strimling

The bill seems reasonable to me.

A little education never hurt anybody.

Barry Sturk
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Respect the forum and the issue at hand

[quote="J Fred"]This is about feathering his bed while chipping away
at our God-given rights.

Shame on you, Jeff, you arrogant *.[/quote]

Scott Fish, Editor of As Maine Goes has been kind enough to give us this great forum that allows us to discuss the important issues and news that concern Maine's people on a daily basis and while I understand firearm issues are very important to many we need to respect the forum and refrain from lowering ourselves to vulgar personal attacks on people. This only stands to degrade the intellect of the argument at hand and clouds the issue. We don't need to lend any credibility to the knuckle dragging mentality that the anti-gunners always claim is rampant in the pro-gun community. This also goes to show like the legislation (L.D.778) that has been introduced by someone who is supposedly pro-gun, we tend to be our own worst enemy, this needs to stop, and we need to start working together if we want to win the fight for our rights. Just food for thought.....

Barry Sturk
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Re: Legislators misled about LD 778

[quote="BlueJay"]I just heard back from my rep who signed on to this bill. He said they were originally led to believe that the NRA and gun owners were in support of this bill. He met today with NRA staff and learned otherwise, admitting that the bill sounds rather self-serving. Shame on Weinstein. I hope it's withdrawn or killed in committee.

[color=blue]mainemom is right - essentially, is there really a problem that this legislation can fix?[/color]. [color=red]How many murders have been committed by CWP holders? [/color][/quote]

I was the one who spent today meeting with Legislators and trying to inform them on the facts about this bill, and you are right they were misled by someone claiming to represent the NRA. Believe me buy the time I was done I left no room for interpretation about where the NRA stands on this issue! I will leave it up to you to guess who misled them.

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