Roger - I'm not "blaming" America. I'd just like to see this avenue examined.
Bob - an interesting read. I know very little of Chechnya. (btw - I deleted my first response by accident...)I'm still not convinced that this is proof that they want to kill all of us "non-believers" off.
Why aren't they attacking Hindus, Rastafarians, Moonies?Until we examine this, I don't believe we can say we've begun to examine the root cause of terrorist actions against the United States.Bottom line - the Iraq conflict is about OIL.
Ah....the ever-popular "OIL" gig. I guess once you put the bumper sticker on your car, there's no giving in.
quote:Originally posted by Melvin Udall:
[b]Ah....the ever-popular "OIL" gig. I guess once you put the bumper sticker on your car, there's no giving in.[/b]
You mean that we don't rely on oil?by the way U-haul - I like mustard on my hot dog. Gonna buy me one tomorrow? I'll bring my accordion and play you a song.
laMaine...Unless you are a Muslim, we are both infidels. We should be killed, according to the radical Islamos.They are killing people in America, Asia, Europe and Africa. Common denominator: Muslim religion.
laMaine, are you truly as uninformed as you present yourself to be? I find that hard to believe, but you keep refereshing the thought every time you post on this thread. And the same could easily be said of the other liberal posters here, also.From the 9/11 Commission Report, page xvi, in the Preface:[b]We learned about an enemy who is sophisticated, patient, disciplined and lethal. The enemy rallies broad support in the Arab and Muslim world by demanding redress of political grievances, but its hostility toward us and our values is limitless. Its purpose is to rid the world of religious and politial pluralism, the plebiscite, and equal rights for women. It makes no distinction between military and civilian targets. Collateral damage is not in its lexicon.[/b]That is polite, politically correct wording that clearly states the enemy, muslim extremists, want to rid the world of all those with whom they disagree, regardless of the ethnic, political or religious attributes of their "enemies." You, laMaine and all of you other liberals on AMG, you are their enemies. They want to kill you, your family, your friends, and anyone who is not exactly like them. No dissent, no discussion, no conversation, no reasoned, measured response. Just death for their enemies.The 9/11 Commission Report goes on to say [b]That September day, we came together as a nation. the test before us is to sustain that unity of purpose and meet the challenges now confronting us.[/b]I would suggest we, as Americans, need to be more unified and less divisive. This is not a game. It is real life and real death. And death will come sooner to each of us, sooner than we expect, if we do not get our act together, get our national resolve together, and unite to defeat, permanently, those that would see our country and all American nonmuslims die.Don't take my word for it. Take the word of Anthony R. Whitaker, Captain, Port Authority Police, who was at his post in the mall under the World Trade Center, when the first plane hit.[b]So I was standing in front of Banana Republic when I heard what sounded to me like a roar, just a roar, and it just continued to get louder and louder and louder until it got so loud that it sounded like it was right next to me, right next to the left side of my face. So I looked to my left, and at that instant I saw a gigantic fireball coming out of the lobby of building 1 on the south side, which is the Marriott side. It was coming right toward me, and it appeared as if it was pushing people in front of it, and all around it, and inside of it, just free-floating. It was the eeriest thing I've ever seen. Instinctively, something told me to get out of the way of this thing. I didn't hesitate. I turned left and ran down the main corridor toward the lobby of building 2. There's a small hallway in between building 1 and building 2. When I got to that hallway, I dove in.[/b][b]I don't know how long I was on the floor, but when I finally woke up or came out of whatever I was in, I dragged myself up to my knees and I just started feeling my body parts, just to make sure everything was there. I stumbled back out to the main hallway, and I stopped because it was quiet, just deadly quiet, no sounds at all. The light were all off. And as I started to stumble back toward building 1, I became conscious. I became aware of the fact that I was stepping on things, and a voice in side of my head just said, "Don't look down." So I didn't, but it instinctively occurred to me what I was stepping on. I was walking on people, body parts. It just felt like I was walking on cushiony things.[/b]
[b]At the same time, I saw two people out of the corner of my left eye, running toward me from the general direction of the lobby of building 1. And they were on fire. They ran toward me and then they ran right past me. The issued no sound. All their clothes were burnt off, and they were just smoldering.[/b]From [b]Never Forget, An Oral History of September 11, 2001, by Mitchell Fink and Lois Matthias, page 23.[/b]Perhaps this will jog your memory, from the same book, page 33. Gary Smiley, Paramedic, Batallion 31, FDNY is speaking:[b]An enormous amount of debris began to fall out of the south Tower. People running out of buildings toward us were getting hit with stuff and killed. I remember one guy who ran up to me and he was holding onto a leg. I thought, My God, he's holding his own leg.[/b]
[B]He was screaming, "Help me, help me." He was holding somebody else's leg. I'll never forget that guy. He was just standing there with this entire leg in his arms. He had lost all control of what was going on and was screaming.[/b][b]And you know, when I got burned on my back, it was a human arm that hit me, and it was on fire. That's what burned my back. It was unbelievable, an absolute nigtmare at that point - bodies everywhere, people falling out of the building.[/b][b]...People were jumping out of the North Tower. At first, you didn't know what the heck they were doing, and then you realized when you saw one after the other after the other. Two people hit two separate firemen and killed them right before my eyes. One young guy that works with my station wanted to go across the street and try to catch the faling people. I was holding onto him. I almost had to knock him to the ground. I said, "You can't. They're going to kill you."[/b][b]This went on and on, and I remember watching fourteen people jump, including a couple that must have jumped from at least the ninetieth floor. They held hands and jumped. That was the most sickening sight I've ever seen in my life, the most helpless feeling, watching these people who have no other choice but to leap from some ninety floors. At one point I had to turn away. I couldn't watch it any more.[/b]On the news reports of the Muslim terrorist attack in Russia, I remember an account of a young boy, who had been without water for 24 hours, obtaining the courage to go up to one of his captors, who had an AK47 with a bayonet attached, and asking him for water. Instead, he received the bayonet through his stomach.For those of you who want to elect Kerry, just ask yourself this: will he be a decisive commander in chief? Will he have the intelligence and resolve to carry this war to our enemies? To clearly defeat them and kill them wherever they are found? Does he have a strong foundation of principles upon which can make decisions?I have asked myself those questions. And I think the answer is no - Kerry does not have what it takes to lead this country at this point in history. Bush does. And if you disagree with how he is conducting America's participation in this war, then voice your disagreements and recommend improvements. Quit, though, your harping on the past, and on things which are not within your or our control as a nation. Help America deal with the war at hand, with the war against Muslim extremists, with those who wish to kill each and every one of us.United we stand, divided we fall. Or, as Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together, or, surely, we will all hang separately."[ 09-08-2004: Message edited by: John3:16 ]
Heard today the count was up to 1003. charlie
You're wrong charlie. The death toll is 3846. You seem to forget the 2843 innocent men & women who were killed in the opening salvo on 9-11-2001. And in my opinion (and it's only that), there would be many more civilian deaths since then had we not responded as we did.
lamaine, I think the Australians lost 119 civilians in the nightclub bombing in Bali by the islamic group Jemaah Islamiah which has ties to bin laden.[ 09-08-2004: Message edited by: P. ]
You compare apples and oranges here P. Please re-read my original post which read:"Heard the military death toll in Iraq hit 1,000 today..."charlie
Let's please pay homage to the 130+ U.S. soldiers killed in Afghanistan, also. Kerry and company won't mention them, there's no political leverage. BTW, Kerry said today that the Iraq war was part of the war on terror...
quote: "Today marks a tragic milestone in the war in Iraq; more than 1,000 of America's sons and daughters have now given their lives on behalf of their country, on behalf of freedom, the war on terror," Kerry said as he arrived in Cincinnati on a campaign stop.
Invading Afghanistan looking for bin Ladin was a worthwhile endeavour, though I have serious doubts about trying to democratize the country.Invading Iraq was a mistake on GWB's part, true democracy is a generation down the road if it ever happens.Having said that I'll add I have only the highest admiration for those in the military who've done as their misguided comander in chief has ordered."Mine is not to reason why, mine is but to do, or die..." and I forget the attribution here, but never the words!charlie
You might prefer Patton's version, Charlien, paraphrased, "Our job is not die for our country. Our job is to make the other sonuvabitch die for his."
Yeah, I like Patten's too. But here, I think mine more appropriate, given the circumstances.charlie
Our nation and our military and civilians are in a "them or us" scenario. Where do you stand, Charlien, them or us?
I think he waves a palestinian flag- sad
I refer the both of you to my previous post, if you require further clarification, you should examine within your selves.charlie
John and Erica, I fail to see how charlien's comments warranted your respective replies... :confused:
What was the Military Death Toll in Viet Nam because of Jane Fonda, and John Kerry's actions?
'The enemy rallies broad support in the Arab and Muslim world by demanding redress of political grievances'I think this is the part of the report that some would like to see examined.
It makes sense, after all, to know who the enemy is, and what their motivation is.It's not treason to question who we are as a nation. The sum total of our actions, is who we are as a nation. Some people like,love,hate us for actions percieved against them by U.S.The very fact that someone on the planet will give up their life to take mine, makes me question what the heck do they think I've done to them. I mean come on, we're all good Americans just doin what we can with what we can afford to buy.
We dont really want upset people that much do we.Curbing oil consumption makes America safer and stronger.
Tom O and Charlien: It is a reasonable question. Charlien has consistently criticized the American response, via the Bush administrations's leadership, to the war on terror and one of its subsets, the war in Iraq. And Charlien avoided the answer.I'll repeat the question, shortened: Them or us. Which side are you on, Charlien?
In order to defend questionable decisions
many politicians pretend that there were only two alternatives.
You live in an either/or world John 3:16. Everything is either black or white. My world consists of various shades of many different colors.I'm comfortable opposing the invasion of Iraq, and declaring I'm proud to be a US citizen in the same breath.I hope that answers your question about where I stand in this.charlie
If you were standin on a railroad track, you'd be stradling either a rail or a tie, as your answer was right up the middle.Thus, it is not an answer.It's an "or" question.Them OR us.Muslim extremists who want to kill you (defined as "them") or us (Americans). If a muslim extremeist is an American and he/she wants to kill you, then he/she is a "them."I encourage you to give it another try.Them? or
i-Don't you dare include me in any group that includes those barbaric animals.How can you say we when part of the "group" has pledged to kill the rest of the group or die trying?You sound as if you think these sub-humans can be reasoned with.US or THEM?Where do you stand?
laMaine, on 9-7-04 you asked why the muslim terrorists don't attack others, including the Australians. Been reading the news, fella?Been reading about the muslim terrorist bombing in Indonesia a day or two ago that targeted the Australian embassy? Killed about a dozen people, wounded hundreds.Liberals never ever seem to understand reality.Good thing you don't live in Indonesia, wouldn't you agree?Open your eyes to the world we live in. And then drop to your knees and pray. Prayer: it stands head and shoulder above my other piece of advice: eternal vigilance. We've got to be prepared for life here on earth and life in the hereafter.When are we having lunch?
Sandy is a homo-sapien
Osama is a homo-sapienOsama has five letters
Sandy has five lettersIf you really think that you have nothing in common with your enemy, he is gonna beat you.
Because you are wrong.
It is difficult to obtain a straight answer from a troll, as it gives a significant clue about their true identity and philosophy.
Bringing this back to the top for Charlien, laMaine and Independant.laMaine: Muslim extremists have attacked others besides Americans. Have you noticed?each of you: Them or Us. Time to choose sides.No quibbling. A one word answer will suffice.