Must the 'law' be 'legalistic'?

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Mike Beardsley
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 01/26/2005 - 1:01am
Must the 'law' be 'legalistic'?

I thought this one was pretty good, it's from: Richard Rives' Just the Facts: on WND, it's about 4 1/2 minutes.

Last seen: 3 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 01/18/2005 - 1:01am
Thank you Mike. I am a firm

Thank you Mike. I am a firm believer of being aware of the Torah.

Jesus (YAHshua HaMashiach) said if you say you love me and keep not My commandments, then you are a liar., the truth is not in you.

What were Jesus' commandments? The Big Two,
Love God (you know the rest of the commandment) and Love your neighbor as yourself. People do not realize that Jesus' First commandment covers numbers 1-4, and the Second commandment covers 5-10. They asked Him which is the greatest, He in essence says all 10.

Now, the 10 commandments is a summary of the 613 instructions of the Torah.

I studied the Torah for two reasons. 1st, I wanted to get the clearest possible view of what God wanted man to do to honor Him. Second, how would I know if I sinned if I don't know any laws? Children lie, cheat and steal until parents instruct them that these are not acceptable. If they had no parents, would some day a light bulb illuminate in their brain and all of a sudden they knew these were bad, (there are some things we feel are inherently wrong) or would they just continue thinking they were good people?

Jesus kept the law perfectly. I want to be as much like Him as I can.

Of course the animal sacrifices were temporary shadows that pointed towards this One Lamb, that is done away with, but there is no sin in keeping the commandments.

We are dead to the penalty of breaking the law, but we don't throw them away.

Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 06/05/2006 - 8:03pm
Mike, I found his views to be

Mike, I found his views to be in conflict with the true intent of the Law. Please consider the following:
Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Ro 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The role of the Law:
Ro 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

How shall I be justified, if I cannot keep the law?

Ro 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Ro 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Abraham, declared righteous before the law was given...
Ro 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Ro 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The whole 4th chapter of Romans is full of gems of truth and worth the read...

Did the thief on the cross keep the law? Jesus said he would join him in Paradise.

Col 2:13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

If all my sins are forgiven and I am inseparably in Jesus Christ why do I need to confess that which has already been forgiven? (1st Jn 1:9)

I look forward to your comments.

Mike Beardsley
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 01/26/2005 - 1:01am
Mainestreet, I just saw you'd

Mainestreet, I just saw you'd posted sorry for the delay in getting back...

I did have to go back and listen to the link again and there are things I heard this time that I did not hear before. I agree with the statement about salvation by faith or grace alone. However, I do have problems with what appears to be the position of "Faith plus works" Rives slips into during his explanation.

I thought he made valid points about salvation not being a license to sin "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? " Romans 6:1-2 (KJV). However, upon re-listening I do not agree with Rives' point regarding an impact on salvation, the combination of works with grace he describes is a concern.

The Bible teaches*:

All are sinners: for example

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

The penalty for sin is death in Hell: for example

Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

God provided a way to be reconciled: for example

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Acts 2:24
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

To be saved one must believe on Jesus Christ: for example

Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Salvation is Secure: for example

John 10:28-29
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Salvation cannot be lost:for example

John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 6:37-39
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Salvation is by Grace alone, not by ones works: for example

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

* All scriptures from the King James Version

Thanks for the comment Mainestreet which allowed me to clarify this.

Anyone who has not put their trust in Jesus Christ, you can know for sure that if you died today, you'd end up in Heaven. If you believe what is listed above, you can pray right now something like:

Lord Jesus
I know that I am a sinner.
I know I deserve to go to Hell, but I believe you died on the cross for me and rose again.
Please save me right now and give me eternal life. I'm only trusting in you Jesus. AMEN.

The exact words you use are not important, the words don't save you, the belief on Jesus Christ alone will.

Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 06/05/2006 - 8:03pm
Mike, I appreciate your reply

Mike, I appreciate your reply and the excellent bible study contained in it. One of my favorite portions of scripture is the account of the thief on the cross found in Luke 23:39-43 where Jesus assures the thief that he will join him in paradise simply by believing and trusting Jesus Christ alone. The vilest of sinners can be saved. Paul says in 1ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The earliest monument to Copernicus, in St. John s Church in his native
Torun, has a curious inscription which is assumed to have been copied from a
note found in his possession (Zinner*, p.245). It is a poem by Aeneus Silvius:

Non parem Pauli gratiam requiro, Veniam Petri neque
Posco, sed quam In crucis ligno dederas latroni, Sedulus

I crave not the Grace bestowed on Paul
Nor the remission granted to Peter
Only forgive me, I fervently pray
As thou forgavest the crucified thief.

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