Our President Elect Defines Sin

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With "my values!" That's all you need to know about BHO!

Seems to me that Obama was trying to say that sin is something you answer for yourself according to your own values.

Good grief. There are so many reasons to criticize the Puppet-elect and our criminal government, but making yourself hysterical over nonsense is just silly.

Tom - Take a pill! When we "sin" we have violated God's law. I don't know what Obama's intent was when he made the statement, but the fact that he stated the meaning was he was "out of alignment with his own values" seems to suggest he is either out of touch with the true meaning, or considers himself above God.

Hysteria, like beauty, must be in the eye of the beholder, Tom. I'd suggest you check a mirror. If it fogs, you're off to a reasonable start.

Jim, I think it's the former, not the latter. He's not in touch. The media seems to believe he is above God (all that messiah stuff), but I'm not of the view that even the president elect has that view of himself. According to many on AMG, though, I'm often very, very wrong. They are incorrect, but that is fodder on another thread.

What is God's law? Each Christian must interpret the teachings for himself, and devise his own moral code. Surely there are some black and white issues, but many are gray. That is my point.

Case in point: my pastor came over for dinner the other night and I asked him if Jesus taught pacifism. He wasn't sure. I'm not either.

Some would say that self-defense is a sin, other apparently think participating in the murder of 1 million Iraqis is perfectly justified under God's law.

I can't say for sure, only what my own values are based on my interpretation of the Bible.

I don't know, Tom, but God has always been pretty clear about what is and is not sin. I don't believe He leaves much for sinners to interpret.

As for Obama's quote, for whatever reason, it brings to mind the video of Oprah chanting "I AM" over and over and then saying, "That made me feel so powerful!"

Creepy.

For the seeker of God who is mindful of God's ordinances, sin can be personalized as well as general. I knew a preacher's wife years ago that told me she was obsessed with earrings. She explained that it is no sin for a woman to wear this jewelery except for her because it meant too much to her. Anything to an individual that creeps between their clear view of them self and God becomes sin to that person. I would challenge anyone who would to audit their preferences and make sure that they are not obstructing a clear view of their God.

Why don't you provide a little context?

Did it ever occur to you that this might be an example of slightly twisted syntax that might have better been interpretted as "sin is when my values are out of alignment with my actions." Or, "sin is when what I'm doing is out of alignment with my values." Personal based, not proclaiming that his values apply to all. That is what the answer to the follow-up question implies.

As others have stated, you sure seem to make a lot out of nothing.

If you actually provided complete context, Average Joe, then you'd be compelled to include the heaven question and Hussein's answer. There is a quote limit of 75 words. You'd exceed it. If someone wants complete context, then they should read all or most of the complete text: thus the link.

Sin is very well defined in the Bible. Hussein proclaims himself to be a christian. Thus, his one and only true point of reference should be the Word of God, i.e., the Bible. The Bible is the compass for the Christian, clear and accurate, just as the compass always points North.

When Hussein or anyone says sin is being defined as being out of synch with my (his own) values, as a christian, he is simply wrong, dangerously wrong.

The fact that you are taking the apologist role for the president elect says as much about yourself as Hussein said about himself in that one quote.

I'm sorry, I forgot that second to the Bible and God Himself, you are the ultimate authority on what people should and must believe. I apologize.

My point, which you completely ignored, is to point out the fallacy in thinking that this quote somehow shows Obama elevating himself to god-like status, whose values must be obeyed by all others. To the contrary, he is talking about his personal values.

Who are you to say that Obama's personal values do not 100% reflect "his one and only true point of reference...the Word of God, i.e., the Bible?"

You're peeing on the wrong tree, pal. I have never said, nor have I held myself out to be an authority on the Bible or on God's Word.

I am a Christian, a sinner, a born again believer in Jesus Christ, and someone who knows he is saved by the grace of Christ, not by my own actions or deeds. My experience and knowledge as a Christian is typical of most Christians - in other words, my experience and views are not unique or special among evangelical Christians.

The president elect's answer to the sin question indicates he has a different experience, a different view, a different perspective. And it does not indicate anything positive about his relationship to Christ as his savior, nor is it supported by a Christian Biblical perspective. Maybe it fits yours or someone else's, but that is not for me to determine.

Apologize for him all that you want, he does not seem to be the man he proclaims himself to be when it comes to having a relationship with Christ. His view seems to be more like that of a secular man, not a saved man who continues to develop his relationship with Christ and God.

You may not hold yourself out to be an authority on the Bible or on God's Word, but you sure seem to come across that way.

Simply attacking another man's religious beliefs on what, in this case, are clearly shaky grounds, casts you in that role.

Did you ever take algebra? If x = "my values" and y = "God's Word" and x = y, what happens when you do the subsitution?
"Being out of alignment with my values."

You do not have the power to determine if x = y, or not. But you can guess all you want, which you do so well.

You're losing focus. Focus on Obama, not me. I didn't say what he said, He said what he said. Plus, algebra and I were never close friends.

Again with the focus crap! This whole thread is about how YOU interpret what he said!

And I'm sorry to tell you that an understanding of the logic of algebra is integral to substantive thinking.

:shock: That was pretty rude AJ! Somehow when God passed the "Ten Commandments" to Moses I don't think he had algebra in mind. I could be wrong! I'm just one of those "non-substantive" people who believes that God has been very clear in his word to us.

come guys, group hug.

I'm all for that, Kenny...while I figure out how I managed to link algebra to the Ten Commandments!

John likes to believe he has the inside scoop on what a relationship with Christ should look like. So do many others. What's interesting is that they are all very different. Those who speak in tongues or handle snakes are especially interesting. I find that Christians aren't very tolerant of other belief systems, and especially other Christian denominations. Not very Christian of them is it?

Dem - It must be all those liberals you're hanging out with in Augusta! :lol:

Jim - that's all that's left!!! :lol:

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Obama skips church, heads to gym

What a phoney this guy is.

He spent the entire campaign trying to hide what a self-serving slimly politician he is. His "faith" has been only a matter of political convenience.

Hey, it's a much better use of his time. I'd much rather see my President fit and healthy than waste time in church. But that's just me. Most people who call themselves Christians do not attend church every week. Does that make them less Christian? Less worthy. Is this the measure of a good President - how often he goes to church?
Heck, using that logic, the best thing we could do is elect a Muslim - they pray five times a day!! I'm guessing that makes them holy than most Christians.

He can worship Alana the Tree Frog for all I care. The problem is he promoted this image of a man of faith during the campaign, and then when it's over - he feels he doesn't have to go to church anymore.

The guy is a phoney and will do and say anything that he thinks will help him, whether or not it's true.

I cannot tell you how much I hate to "defend" this bozo, but I feel I must point out that Ronald Reagan did not attend church during his tenure for much the same reason Obama is giving.

I also have to say that there are ways to worship other than entering a building with a steeple. (Note: I am not saying that Obama is doing so or that he is not, but I thought I thought I should mention the possibility.)

The guy is a phoney.

And you know this how, Tom? You know him personally? You read minds? You can tell whether he's sincere or not because? Can't you find more important things to whine about?

democrat, there is a difference between whining and stating the obvious. Tom C is merely stating the obvious. You seem to define whining as any divergence with your perspective. Very unsubstative of you, laddie, very unsubstantive. You can do better.

It's a free country, we can whine about whatever we want. And I note that dem has found "something more important" to whine about.

Namely ME.