Police agencies shooting it out.

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Tom C
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Police agencies shooting it out.

The shooting in the Glenn M. Anderson Federal Building in Long Beach reportedly involved a dispute between an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent and his supervisor. The agent shot his boss and then was killed by another agent.

Shootout between federal agents kills 1, wounds 1

Goodness. What is this, Mexico? This is cops shooting other cops. What chance does a citizen have out there?

thejohnchapman
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There are many answers to

There are many answers to your question, of varying levels of seriousness depending on what aspect we are dealing with. In the military, we have had multiple instances of Iraqui and Afghan soldiers targeting ours, and in Maine, two instances of dispatchers "shooting it out" with police.

It is important to distinguish between the types of incidents, if one is going to get to the bottom of things. A "blue on blue" (mistaken identity) is a very different situation from a "Major Hassan" type situation, where the subject "goes on jihad", which is in turn different from where an employee "goes postal".

Each has very different causes and preventitive measures.

Tom C
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This incident, the two Maine

This incident, the two Maine incidents and the strange case of Albert Covarrubias Jr. seem to indicate a signficant uptick in these events over just the last few months.

Stephen Carmichael
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It's police multiple

It's police multiple personality disorder syndrome. They are being trained not to do what they signed up for and getting confused as to who the good guys and bad guys are, while in a pressure cooker.

M.D. Harmon
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As an ICE agent noted

As an ICE agent noted anonymously on the Instapundit blog today, one of the differences between the Fort Hood massacre and this shooting is that Major Hassan killed 13 unarmed soldiers (14, when you count the fact that one of his victims was pregnant) before someone who was armed arrived and stopped him, while in this case the shooter was surrounded by armed people and only was able to shoot one person before being confronted and killed.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. And how shameful is it that our soldiers are forbidden to carry arms on a military post while civilians just outside can exercise their basic rights unfettered by such restrictions?

Tom C
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They are being trained not to

They are being trained not to do what they signed up for and getting confused as to who the good guys and bad guys are, while in a pressure cooker.

There is also a cognitive disconnect.

I once asked a police officer about the points a violation would put on a licence, and she looked at me blankly and said: "I don't know anything about points." Really? You DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE POINT SYSTEM? What she meant was: "I'm not supposed to consider points when writing up a citation" but for some reason the plain truth was unspeakable by her.

Another police officer told me: "There are no such thing as 'speed traps'". Oh, really? In what universe? What he MEANT was: "We have the right to enforce speed limits in all situations, and we don't like the negative term 'speed trap' when we are doing our job." Fine. But why the problem saying that? Why make an untrue statement?

A police chief told me that the low speed limits were "for public safety". When I commented to him that his own cruisers don't obey the 25mph limit, he coughed and said merely: "I hope my officers are demonstrating a good example to the public." He refused to state what everyone knows - that hardly anyone follows the 25mph limits - especially police cruisers.

For some reason, though, the police are unable to speak these simple truths that everyone knows.

I know that sometimes police need to do things that the cultured set might find slightly distasteful, or even offensive, like taking down a wild drunk in a melee outside of a bar. Applying only "necessary force" might look to the people unfamiliar with bar-room brawls as appearing to be "police brutality". The rules of engagement aren't always black and white, especially when you're smarting from a knee in the groin or fist in the nose. However, they then go back and write up the police report using the unemotional, dry and generally provocative language of the police report.

I'd imagine that living in that type of bizarre reality would put stress on just about anyone.


"I'm scared, Fif. Do you know why? It's that rat circus out there. I'm beginning to enjoy it. Any longer out on that road, and I'm one of them, you know? A terminal crazy."

"I'll tell you what I'll do, Max. Take off a few weeks. Grow yourself a beard. Draw flies. Just think about it for a while. If you still feel the same way when you come back, it's okay by me.

"Get out of here before I decide to come with you."

"Thanks, Fifi."

"You'll be back, Rockatansky! You're hooked, Max! And you know it!"

Tom C
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Odd story - more cops

Odd story - more cops shooting other cops:

Meanwhile investigators identified Nagy as the prime suspect in the shooting. A warrant for his arrest was issued and a statewide manhunt was launched.

Essex County District Attorney Jonathan Blodgett warned the public during a press conference Friday night that Nagy was armed and dangerous

Cop Shoots Fellow Officer Then Takes Own Life, Police Say

The day after a Hamilton police sergeant allegedly shot a Beverly police officer outside a Starbucks, then ended his own life in the parking lot there hours later, the status of the wounded police officer is unclear.

North Shore communities reeling after shock of police shooting

Tom C
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Interesting - the police have

Interesting - the police have clammed-up about the above incident - and drawn an airtight "blue wall of silence" about the motives of the initail shooting:

“Sgt. Nagy is dead. We can’t possibly know the motive. It’s not relevant to the investigation any longer,” Carrie Kimball Monahan, spokeswoman for Essex District Attorney Jonathan Blodgett,

DA: Motive ‘not relevant’

What's interesting about the DA spokesperson's statement - from what I can read, they probably DO know what the motive was. Her comment about "can't possibly know the motive" is a baldfaced lie.

Had the motive been related to drug dealing the police officers were involved in, the DA's office would be looking into it further, and it would be a matter of public interest. Had the injured officer abused the deceased's wife as a co-worker, again it would be a matter of public interest, and the harpies would have been all over it as well. The DA's sudden lack of interest permits us to use the process of elimination to draw our own conclusions.

Here's a question - IF the shooting was based on an affair the injured officer was having, do we, subject to the protectorate of these fine men in blue, have a "need to know" what kind of extra-curricular activities they might be involved in that ultimately resulted in gunplay on our streets?

David Allen
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Tom C, my nephew-in-law is a

Tom C, my nephew-in-law is a Beverly cop. Word is that it was an affair and jealousy was the motive. It wouldn't surprise me if that comes out over the next few days. The police officer who was shot is going to be OK. ADDED: According to the comments on this story, adultery is still a crime in Massachusetts punishable by up to three years in prison or a fine. If rumors are true, then the officer who was shot is now guilty of a crime that makes him ineligible to be on the force.

Tom C
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The moral elements are

The moral elements are distasteful, however I don't believe critical in this case. The fact that the wounded officer seems to feel free to diddle married co-workers, however, brings his judgement and character into question.

Like drunk driving, or texting - adultery in situations where some or all of the principals carry firearms can also be reasonably expected to result in fatal outcomes.

UPDATE:

A spokesperson for Essex District Attorney Jonathan Blodgett is now clarifying earlier reports that his office has closed the investigation into the shooting of a Beverly police officer

UPDATE: Blodgett says police shooting investigation continues

Ah... so now they are CLARIFYING the earlier statement.

You see - the only problem was that the earlier statements just weren't clear - it led to us (simple us) MISUNDERSTANDING what they meant. So, now they've CLARIFYIED those earlier statements for us.

Hey, how about they realized what a bunch of jackasses they were, and they did a 180.

Now THAT would be a true "clarification" of the situation.

NEW UPDATE:

Margery Eagan had a good column on this in the Boston herald today:

Sorry, but the cops and the DAs work for us. We give them those badges and guns. We need to know at least that the guys with the guns are guys that should have them.

Public deserves answers in cop crime

There has been a general outcry locally about this situation.

Most people assume that this was the result of an affair between the deceased's wife and the wounded officer. An alternative senario that occurred to me is that the officer may have been abusive to his wife, and the wounded officer involved in the investigation. However, if that were the situation, I'd expect the harpies to be crowing about domestic violence, and since that is not the case, I tend to discount that as a possible motive here.

One considerartion is that the deceased's wife was a member of the domestic violence group of the Beverly PD. In the recent past, several officers in Massachusetts accused of domestic violence have had their guns taken away, and been treated as if they were guilty of whatever actions they were merely charged with. (A policy which our Maine governor wholeheartedly endorses, by the way.) The officer here, understandably angry at learning of his wife's affair, becomes a "dangerous person" in the eyes of the domestic violence lobby. Expressing anger, even only verbally, even if justified, might subject the officer to career-ending accusations. Realizing that, he may have felt that there was no possible good outcome.

UPDATE:

Irony of the century. The group that the deceased officer's wife works for: "Healing Abuse - Working for Change" has an event scheduled for March 1: “All you need is LOVE” The purpose of the event is to allow the public to "join Healing Abuse Working for Change’s staff, volunteers and other friends who are passionate about breaking the cycle of violence".

You can't make this stuff up.

Stephen Carmichael
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All you need is a love! Ha

All you need is a love! Ha

Reminder the fall of Troy and how a captured wife caused a war, now that is some serious domestic violence.

Tom C
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Excellent point. Here's a

Excellent point.

Here's a thought for you.

Mere stupid and insensitive comments have attained the close attention of liberal lawmakers who decry those as "hate crimes" and demand fierce judical retribution.

However adultery, which results not only in deeply hurt feelings, ruins families, and as long as humanity has been around, has often generated violence - and even murder - the liberals ask us to shrug off, accepting this as part of thier enlightened "new morality".

Perhaps the ancients, who demanded shame - and even death - as punishment for adultery, were onto something.

UPDATE:

The Boston Herald, which has been eating the Globe's lunch on this, reports:

Suicide cop’s wife worked for Essex DA

But, of course:

the DA’s office, which is working with local and state police, does not consider that a conflict of interest.

Nope, nothing to see here, folks. We'll be issuing our INVESTIGATION which will answer all your questions.

Until then, we'd prefer you don't pry into the matter.

thejohnchapman
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On point one, adultery

On point one, adultery certainly does create a large measure of problem.

On the second point, both cops and the DA's office work for the exec branch of government, and are theoretically laboring on the same oar. Absent a special interaction between the two (like assigning a DA to prosecute her husband, a cop), there's no conflict of interest generally.

The real question is whether a "victim witness advocate" would have the ability to affect the outcome in an investigation / prosecution of a matter to which she is not assigned. If the DA's office cannot segregate her from the investigation, that'd be a problem.

http://www.mass.gov/essexda/about-the-office/courthouses/
http://www.mass.gov/essexda/contact-us.html

From their website, it LOOKS like they have a bunch of satellite offices. It should be possible to segregate her from the investigation without a lot of trouble.

Still, in Maine, I am aware of one DA who sends such cases to the AG. Probably, this was due to the "appearance of conflict" thing.

Reaganite
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Police Drone crashes into

Police Drone crashes into SWAT team tank during police test near Houston

Link

(Conroe, Montgomery County) -- A drone has crashed during a police test flight near Houston, adding to growing safety concerns as more police departments take flight with the unmanned aircraft.

The Montgomery County Sheriff's Office north of Houston became one of the first police departments in the country to begin flying Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) for police missions in October 2011.

County officials and the maker of that drone confirmed on Friday that a recent police-only photo mission went terribly wrong.

Stephen Carmichael
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“That government is best

“That government is best which governs least” Thomas Jefferson

Under the supervision of the esteemed bureaucratic command structure and guidance of advising Attorneys General (that are paid to defend liberties), the funding from Patriot Act created Homeland Security, has produced a drone program propagated by industrial military contractors. The drone program has and will be sold to the confident population as a measure of expanded police capabilities in an ever so expanding hostile and dangerous society. Surveillance from the sky is noting new to policing in America, it’s the bureaucrat flying and gathering the information that threatened liberties in the name of security.


Big Brother is watching over the sky in hopes of seeing something.

For agencies with low budgets and without the aid of Homeland Security grants of $300K for a drone there may be another option. For many years mankind has used the currier pigeon to send information in the form of written documents, with the aid of cheap and extremely small camera’s any visionary agent of homeland security could outfit a cites annoying pigeon population with cameras to take pictures of the community. To even further expand the capabilities of this pigeon operation a special diet of seeds treated with food coloring might result in the ability to mark targets from the sky, as we all know birds enjoy hitting targets from the sky with their waste. <----humor not a serious proposal

Tom C
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Former Toledo police Sgt.

Former Toledo police Sgt. Gloria Burks was found not guilty by reason of insanity to charges connected to shooting a fellow officer.

Burks found not guilty by reason of insanity in shooting of fellow officer

Stephen Carmichael
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More ammunition for police

More ammunition for police officer applicants that are denied a job based on hiring standards that don't apply to full time Officers that made the force.

Tom C
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An internal affairs

An internal affairs investigation has concluded that no Beverly Police Department rules were violated leading up to the shooting of Patrolman Jason Lantych, in part because the department lacks rules or policies regarding personal relationships in the workplace.

Investigation: No violation of policies in Beverly police shooting case

That's interesting. But what are you going to do? Pass a law that police officers can't have affairs? I can imagine how THAT would go over.

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