Don't forget the 46%. We must show, without political bias and a whole lot of name calling, where and how we are worse off than before. Don't forget all the promises made if we would just NOT vote for TABOR.
Now don't yell and scream. That will get you nowhere. Just politely, mathmatically and methodically show me.
"I'm from Missourie."
Well I for one will tell the local towns to spent and crank up the taxes until even those who voted against TABOR start to scream and holler. Apollo is right in saying that better than half of the voters are either working for government or are lay-a-bouts getting government welfare of some sort. The only way to reach these people is to make the taxes so high that even they cannot stand it.
They are not that,,,,,*bright*?
When they complain of high taxes, they are also the first to raise their hands to vote for spending at town meeting. That is, if they bother to go. They have no idea that spending more means they have to pay more.
As the saying goes," It's their taxes that are to high, it is your taxes that aren't high enough."
Michelle - I am sorry that your political opponents have so little integrity, and that they somehow believed that publishing the name and contact information of your employer, encouraging people to phone them, is a fair move to make.
Hang in there.
[quote="Apollo"]Hate to disagree. TABOR will never pass in this state because there are too many people getting too much from the government. The anti TABOR people will run the same type of campaign they ran before and they will win in the same way. They'll pour in millions of dollars from out of state, run commercials showing shut down fire stations and unplowed roads, and fly in wagon riders from Colorado.
I for one am not going to be involved in the TABOR campaign this time. The thing I regret more than anything from before is that I spent almost all of my time on TABOR instead of helping Republican candidates. If we can elect the right type of Republicans, TABOR won't be needed.
It's really nice that people that came up with TABOR think of all of these marvelous ideas, and then travel around and talk on the radio about how great it would be if we passed it. But I for one don't intend to go around and get flipped off by the police because I'm putting up a TABOR sign, or be told by a teacher that I'm trying to close down her school, or have a fireman come up to me and demand that I explain to his young daughter why I'm trying to take his job away. The people in this state are so far gone with their entitlement mentality that the only thing that is going to wake them up is bankruptcy or some other severe crisis. Then maybe the legislature can be replaced by some people that actually believe in fiscal restraint. But while the Strimlings of the world continue to be elected by a 3 - 1 margin, there just isn't any point.[/quote]
I felt like this for about a month after the November 06 election, but have since shaken off the familiar feeling of defeat and am once more ready to fight. Never surrender, not even in the face of insurmountable odds! Victory will come eventually, and in the meantime I will continue to struggle for freedom and justice in Maine. The Socialists be damned, they'll have to put me six feet under before I'll surrender and give them the satisfaction of suppressing our free voice.
As for what will ultimately secure victory for TABOR and other Conservative ideals, I cannot be entirely certain, but I must say it will start with a different kind of Conservative leadership. We need some old fashioned Conservative GOP'ers, not country clubbers. We need radical leadership, who come out swinging, not holding up the gloves to block Democrat punches.
Earlier I said that we needed to elect the right type of Republicans. I should have said we need to elect the right type of people, whatever the party, to the legislature. Remember how Peter Mills, a Republican, not only campaigned publicly against Tabor but tied it to Woodcock.
There is another problem with Tabor. Even if you manage to pass it, a liberal controlled legislature will either change it, take it to the courts, or ignore it. For just one example, look at what Baldacci did. He got a court somewhere to state that the Dirigo tax wasn't a tax, it was a "usage fee" or some such similar nonsense. It would be things like that you would see all the time if Tabor managed to pass. That's why it just makes a lot more sense to me to get the fiscally conservative candidates who know what is going on into the legislature.
[quote="Dan Billings"]Imagine if a similar amount of effort was put into recruiting candidates for the Legislature and building an organization to help them in every town and city?[/quote]
Oh, you mean just like the democrats do?
We can win with a new edition of the Maine Taxpayer Bill of Rights if we can get organized on the local level.[/quote]
Tabor I lost because some smart-lass lawyers took advantage of some slightly ambiguous language.
Had Tabor I included a simple, but very direct, statement that no existing budgets would be cut, it probably would have passed.
After all is said and done, however, if we want Tabor 2 to pass we must raise at least a quarter of a million dollars, and we must get some good advertising guys on board.
There is no reality; perception is everything.
[quote="Town Manager"]Here's a tip: Make it apply ONLY to state spending. It will pass by a landslide.[/quote]
I personally agree with this concept. It is a simple first step. TABOR failed because it was too damn complicated for most people.
Simplicity is the way, folks.
Slow and easy win the race. Don't cram ALL the changes into one initiative!
Step one - limit state spending and spending increases (requires citizens initiative and a new governor)
Step two - get State government out of local governemnt - local taxpayers have a better chance of controlling it's politicians
Step three - education - a better informed citizenry is a good thing
Step four - elect GOOD politicians - intelligent problem-solvers without egos if they exist
Step five - cut taxes - make us competitive with our neighbors
Step six - local reforms - enable local people and local government to combine resources and services in efficient and economical ways. ENABLE, not force and threaten.
WATCHDOG: Your barking is music to my ears. I look forward to your future postings.
I agree that recruiting and electing first-class candidates is the ideal solution, but I doubt that the method has much prospect for generating the same enthusiasm a TABOR. One problem is the profligate record of the national GOP. Once in power the majority of the Republican congressman concentrated on exploiting incumbency to secure incumbency. This is a problem tha seems to be inherent in the political dynamics.
An axiom of political science is that complexity of referendum language is a serious liability. Voters have an understandable reluctance to vote for something they don't clearly understand. More, opponents profit from creating and multiplying confusions. The more complicated the proposition the more opportunity they have for floods of misinformation and disinformation.
BINGO! I am 100% with you WatchDog! AND most of the people posting here today were here right after the NOV. 6 election and were saying a lot of the same things...yet here we are just 9 months later and its like their memory's are auto erased. Thats human nature I guess and that is why we continue to spin our wheels....we fail to remember the past!
I don't think the TABOR message was to hard to understand...cut spending to the rate of inflation plus population growth and the people in Berwick bought that and voted in TABOR by 54%. In some form of honor to that vote our school board reigned in spending and increased spending by 2.66% as oppossed to the presented 7% by administration.
I think TABOR 2.0 has a far better chance of passing statewide and I am looking forward to working hard and getting the truth out to the citizens again...I want to stay in Maine and I want my kids to be able to prosper here...that is the bottom line for me...completely selfish, and if others propsper with me that is even better!!!
People are waking up...after this session of government spending frenzy and NO tax relief they will surely see that the majority of legislators sold them down the river...and so did the outside special interest groups...everyone I have spoken to, even the most liberal of citizens is realizing we are in a bad way in Maine and something needs to change.
[quote="hatchcar"]...Could you tell me who were the main forces, other than people who live out of state, who fought against TABOR? Such things as trade associations...[/quote]
In addition to the others already mentioned, lets not forget the major time and financial anti-TABOR assistance from the SEIU and MSEA-SEIU Local 1989. If you want some additional details, just let me know.
I am not in any way defending redundent and wastefull
spending or employees that are not necessary, but,
the very attitude ,as undertstandable as it is , was one of the few things
that really turned people away from voting for TABOR!
You cannot blame a group of people for something and expect them to
jion hands with a cause and succeed.
For the record I am "one of the pigs at trough" and I supported , talked it up
and voted for TABOR. I know alot who didn't and above was a reason why
or related to it!
If it returns and we demonize people and it is demonized again it will fail again!
Peter Mills is a Democrat, plain and simple, who has one priority, and it is himself. May I never be in the same room with him again.
Ask yourself if the tacit assumption that deep down, people want things to get better in Maine, and we just have to show them how to go about it, is true. I believe at this point that there is an overwhelming number who DON'T want anything to do with a healthier economy. For whatever reason, they like things just as weak and dying as they are. It allows them to preserve their status quo in the system we have.
Opponents last time? There was a coalition of about 75 non-profits; it's been posted here. Huge dollars from the NEA (national) and other unions. Nearly $2 million funding for the no campaign, as I recall.
Town officials as well: ours put together an "end of the world" scenario that was founded on the assumption that people are stupid.
Ditto in Kennebunk, Mel. I'll never forget the "how to fight TABOR" seminar for municipal officials that our town manager organized and held in Kennebunk. Hundreds attended from towns and cities all around us, and the presentations from various MMA ops teams was enlightening in its unanimous view of the public as walking wallets.
We insisted on being allowed to attend, since it was our town hall. They had to let us in, although that wasn't their original plan. Once they got going, and forgot about some residents being there, it was several hours of universal blattings of gloom, woeful disaster, and an end to the flood of public dollars if TABOR was enacted.
Thanks Bob and Luv2. Bob, do you know if the Chamber, as a whole, endorsed the defeat of TABOR, or was that just Mr. Connors own opinion? If the Chamber did fight to defeat, it wouldn't have surprised me. I'm wondering as well, if Banking Associations, and highway contractors were against it as well.
Luv2, plz send the info via private message. I'm interested in knowing the details. Thanks to the both of you.
Since we are laying everything on the table here, there is another thing that needs to be said and it is going to upset some people unfortunately. We have a lot of fiscal conservatives in this state who do a lot of talking and complaining about taxes, spending, etc. but very few who really want to do anything about it.
How many times did we hear during the TABOR campaign the following from people:
- "There aren't any signs up in my area. You people aren't doing a very good job."
- "TABOR opponents walked through my neighborhood, when are you going to!?"
- "TABOR opponents called me up, why haven't I gotten any TABOR phone calls!?"
Well, there is a reason for that. Few people really want to do anything. Few people really want to get involved. When you attempt to sign up volunteers and all you hear is "no, I'm too busy right now to help, but keep me on your email list" it is very frustrating. People would constantly complain about the "TABOR campaign is awful, it isn't going anywhere, we are getting hammered in the media" but if you ask them to help, you always got the "oh...nooooooo....I just don't have the time to help". One of my favorite excuses was "well, I'd like to help, but I don't want my job to find out, they might not like it.".
Some counties had how many dedicated people working on TABOR - 5 maybe? The well funded and organized opposition probably outnumbered us 10 - 1 in volunteers. They seemed a lot more motivated than we were.
When the conservatives in this state actually do more than talk a good game, then maybe we will get somewhere.
[quote="Apollo"]very few who really want to do anything about it[/quote]
I think if we make it simple enough to understand, people won't be so reluctant.
However, as far as doing something - I for one will be running for office in 2008. And I will do something about it!
But that is trivial compared to the passionate storm that is brewing right now from all over Maine.
watchdog- Congrats.... Hope you do well in 2008...
What seat are you going for? if you don't mind telling us all...
I will always fight for what I believe in to the end.
TABOR has separated the boys from the men, the girls from the women.
So what if we did lose the first battle.
The colonists lost the Battle of New York during the Revolutionary War.
They rallied and won the war.
If people don't have the testicular fortitude to do that, please go home and shut up.
I am taxed too much to pay for the cheese you need for that whine.
Save your energy. Find a Democrat legislator and try to beat him or her. Good luck in this state.
Tonights poll, WGME, Tabor shall rise again.
82% in favor!
[quote="Bob Stone"]Save your energy. Find a Democrat legislator and try to beat him or her. Good luck in this state.[/quote]
Most of the state is not Lewiston.
A majority of the seats in the House and Senate have been held by a Republican in either the current Legislature or the last.
I was one of those Town Managers that publicly stated (post Nov. 06 election) that if tax reform did not come with this legislature that I would support the next TABOR initative. Upon reflection, I agree that reform did not come, and I will be ready to support a future TABOR, whatever shape it takes.
It is now 84% in favor of a TABOR initiative.
TABOR was running very strong a few months before the election. Then the lies started.
Dan... I don't live in Lewiston any longer.
[quote="Town Manager"]I was one of those Town Managers that publicly stated (post Nov. 06 election) that if tax reform did not come with this legislature that I would support the next TABOR initative. Upon reflection, I agree that reform did not come, and I will be ready to support a future TABOR, whatever shape it takes.
Good for you. And after your put so much faith in the Maine Chamber.
Can you also now agee that the Maine Chamber is useless?
I think the Chamber is a very effective organization for big business. I am not a member of the Chamber and will not comment on thier usefullness...that is up to their membership to decide.
Yeah, usefulness was not the right word.
How about Evil?
That works better.
Dana Connors and Ethan Strimling. It fits.