Given recent RNC decisions such as "Team Nevada" and retroactively changing the rules in the attempt to force Mass delegates to vote "the right way", independent minded people are in no danger of thinking this is an impartial decision. And it's not going to go over well.
The Ron Paul delegates in the other states compromised, why not in Maine? If I was them, I'd take the 10 delegates and be happy about it. They could have just as easily ruled that the whole delegation should be tossed.
This whole mess can be laid at the feet of Brent Tweed. When people raise points of order, saying that people were voting with meal tickets, or that non delegates were in the hall voting, you don't rule them "out of order" and turn off the microphone.
I wonder why none of the poll watchers including those who flew up for the RNC noticed these problems during the convention.
The RNC can seemingly do whatever it wants, but there are consequences. I have previously argued that such a decision may constitute the straw the breaks the camel's back. Time will tell.
" and it isn't going to go over well" .
What does that mean ?
MacKenzie tells us;
"In a Romney administration, he could then sponsor the bill again with a much greater chance of it passing in the House and the Senate and being signed into law."
He already has, Mac. Ron Paul's bill to audit the fed passed 2 to 1 in a bipartisan win for our economy. Unfortunately, Harry Reid is out to lunch and it will never see the light of day in the senate.
As I've spelled out pretty clearly in the post "How Jan Staples and Peter Chianchette Could Cost Romney the Election" there will be a national outcry from Ron Paul supporters. Many will conclude the the Republican Party is un-salvageable and would rather rot from the inside than admit any sort of reform. Mittens will lose the election without the support of the liberty wing... because he failed to cultivate its much needed support. Obviously that is just my guess... I don't claim to see the future.
"So why the hell are the 2 people who filed the complaint worrying about 20 delegates if Willard has the nomination wrapped up???"
Aw c'mon hatchcar; It's 21 delegates. You have been around here since 1999. You should have figured it out by now. Maine is a blue state. The Republicans are a minority. That is the comfort zone of the leadership and they get really wrathy at anybody who disturbs the status quo.
But I bet that is exactly what you would like to see happen.
See when you elect Obama your liberties do not mean squat to him ! But you'll be happy.
It is interesting that the liberty heroes of the constitutional convention each and everyone of them had to compromise ,but today 20 people are
saying it is all or nothing,for the moment.
According to Three Page Problem A caucus rewards candidates whose supporters are more excited and energized. Since no one seems all that excited about Romney,
How exactly is the caucus supposed to measure "excitement and energy" ? In order to qualify must one jump up and scream to get noticed even though we may be Inspired ( as opposed to the qualifying "excited") by a candidates calm. measured and considered approach ? Is one supposed to act in the opposite way of those qualities which one admires in order to count according to the measure of behavior that the caucus allegedly uses to determine such important decisions because those that require flashing lights and screaming sirens and ringing bells in order to hear what others are saying will never hear one if expressed in a manner commensurate with one's own values?
Perhaps one could just hire some clowns with a written script to preform in order to comply with the qualifications for being counted?
It often happens that a small minority is a lot nosier than the silent majority. I would call that the tyranny of the minority.
"As I've spelled out pretty clearly in the post "How Jan Staples and Peter Chianchette Could Cost Romney the Election" there will be a national outcry from Ron Paul supporters. Many will conclude the the Republican Party is un-salvageable and would rather rot from the inside than admit any sort of reform. Mittens will lose the election without the support of the liberty wing... because he failed to cultivate its much needed support. Obviously that is just my guess... I don't claim to see the future."
Or...the Ron Paul supporters who worked out a deal with the RNC might look at the Maine delegation and wonder why they couldn't compromise enough to have some delegates. And I suspect the "Liberty wing" is a very small wing indeed--but the bulk of the Tea Party is solidifying with Romney/Ryan.
Many will conclude the the Republican Party is un-salvageable and would rather rot from the inside than admit any sort of reform. Mittens will lose the election without the support of the liberty wing... because he failed to cultivate its much needed support.
You are right on. If Obama gets a second term, it will be because of people like you Apollo!!!
Really Mackenzie? My description of caucuses certainly isn't original, it seems to be common sense that the difference between being willing to sit in a sweaty room for 4 hours versus stopping by the local school gym for any given three and a half minute stretch to pull a lever will filter out less enthusiastic supporters.
If the "liberty wing" is so influential, why isn't Paul the nominee of the party?
Ron Paul is the nominee from Maine and was from four other states until the lame duck members of the RNC shook their fingers at conservatives and like an elementary school teacher said, "Naughty, naughty." The delegations from three states caved and obediently went to stand in the corner. If they had been adults with principles they would have stood their ground against the lame duck RNC who are soon to be retired and sent back to their town committees where they belong.
Mackenzie Andersen, Apollo, Bruce Libby and Vikingstar should stop whining about the fed and just buy Ron Paul's books. To save money they could each buy one and just pass them around. It really isn't complicated. A real nation should control its currency. Canada controls its currency. We could control ours. JFK took a hard look at the system and had the U. S. treasury begin issuing U. S. Treasury notes. That was the end of JFK. You can still find them in coin shops. LBJ immediately stopped the treasury from printing U. S. Treasury notes and also stopped the coining of silver coins. That pleased the fed and LBJ, the former school teacher retired a very rich man.
This is dangerous. The Ron Paul people turned out their voters. Elections are won by turning out your voters. They swamped the convention with a bunch of enthusiastic people, many of them politically involved for the first time. The party desperately needs an infusion of young, motivated people, and the stupidest thing we can do is alienate them and drive them from the party. Are we seriously going to replace people who were voted on with people who are appointed? Can we afford this precedent? Can we afford to lose the very people who would keep the party alive after old farts like me pass on? How much damage could the Maine delegation do to the convention? Most of those people, unprovoked, would go on to vote for Romney in the general and probably do phone banking, signs, etc. Are the people trying to keep the delegates from attending the convention aware that there's several scenarios where Maine could decide the election? Somebody needs to be the grownup here.
Roger Ek with all due respect if you are going to name me in a post please be accurate .
I never posted about the fed issue in any thread here ,period . I could care less about the fed audit issue if it is even that, a real issue.
Actually I do not think those mentioned have been whining,and even if it is so,I believe we are at liberty to do so.
Actually Vikingstar has made some of the best posts IMHO , and MacKenzie has some very good points.
As much can be said about a constant harangue reference liberty but isn't!
The above question from Vikingstar is begging for an answer.
Roger Ek: Ron Paul is the nominee from Maine and was from four other states until the lame duck members of the RNC shook their fingers at conservatives and like an elementary school teacher...
Sweet Jesus, Roger, don't you ever get tired of playing the victim? The continuous search for people who are "out to get you" must be exhausting.
Very well said, Roger . . . Thank you!
I referred to your post at Tue, 08/21/2012 - 8:50pm. Unfortunately we don't have audio here, but it sure reads like a whine.
I know Roger, but still like to poke at the Willard supporters. No matter whether the 21(thanks for the corretion) are seated for Paul or Willard, BO is going to win Maine. You're right Mike. But the GOP is throwing it away, and in hopefully in due time, will join the ranks of the Whig Party in the near time future.
Bruce: Haven't you learned by this time not to question Maine's only true patriots, such as Roger and Bob? Learn your place amongst the unwashed, or you'll be subject to an incredibly long, self-aggrandizing lecture that is not germane to anything. Or more of Bob S's blathering about his so-called principles - I'm not sure which is worse.
Who screwed the pooch by creating/allowing the delegate situation? Everyone. This is a disgrace to the voters of Maine.
Isn't it RP would be the nominee that our delegation would vote for, at the convention ,where he would become the parties nominee ,if he got the necessary delegate count !
Since he isn't going to be the one who as the numbers to be the nominee .
JAN STAPLES IS A CLASS ACT. She stood by her principles, and took on the Ron Paul people when no one else wanted to. She displayed enormous courage and dignity despite intense pressure and harrassment. She presented her case, and hoisted a humiliating defeat on the likes of Eric Brakey and Brent Tweed. When the National Committee throws out the votes for National Committee man and woman from the State Convention, I hope that she can stay in her position as National Committeewoman.
Or more of Bob S's blathering about his so-called principles
Simple solution, don't read my posts. I rarely read yours.
You read that one, Bob. Thanks for playing.
"Portland, Maine August 15, 2012 - The RNC Committee on Contests found no evidence to support the contest against the Maine Delegation on Friday, yet failed to issue a ruling. Instead, they changed their own rules, which previously required a ruling, in order to grant the contestants a second test to retry their challenge.
“The RNC Committee on Contests could not find any evidence of fraud,” said Mark Willis, the incoming National Committeeman for Maine who holds a Doctor of Law Degree from George Mason University."
"She presented her case, and hoisted a humiliating defeat on the likes of Eric Brakey and Brent Tweed."
Whereas the two statements are mutually exclusive...this newly enrolled republican utters a head shaking....whisky tango foxtrot.....
WASHINGTON – National Republican leaders are recommending that elected Maine delegates loyal to Ron Paul give up half of their seats at next week’s GOP convention or risk losing all 20 due to major problems during the delegate-selection process, a Maine official said Wednesday. But Paul delegates from Maine insisted they were duly elected and said they were not interested in giving up any seats.
“We reject that,” Matt McDonald, a Paul delegate from Belfast, said of the latest compromise floated by RNC officials. “No compromise, no deal.”
Paul delegates from several other states, including Louisiana and Massachusetts, agreed earlier this week to similar compromises as the one offered to Maine’s delegation.
Thank you Reaganite I will try to do better.
Viking,. still hs best question .
Blaine has best statement,we need a primary.
In the end the ultimate liberty is that which allows voters to go behind a curtail and cast a secret ballot !
"The will of the people at large should reign supreme over the machinations of zealots in a convention center."
Does anyone really think that a majority of registered Republicans in Maine favor Paul over Romney? That's not even what the straw vote came up with...
I don't see where a system that allows a vocal minority to run roughshod over the majority is a good thing. YMMV.