Running the gamut, the Maine Vehicle Inspection shakedown 2012
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My daughter is a student at USM (another shakedown for another thread :-)) and has decided to live off campus, so this summer she is not at home, and consequently, niether is the well used but well maintained 1999 Buick. It needed inspection so, since she had a lifetime wheel balance, rotation and alignment, I told her to take it over to VIP and get the oil changed, tires rotated, alignment checked and inspected. Being that it was in Cumberland county, I knew that it would have to pass enhanced inspection, but I personally did a top overhaul on it and had recently put a scan tool on it so no worries there. I fully expected for VIP to find SOMETHING wrong with it, as it is starting to show some signs of age, but when I got the call later, even I was surprised these are the items VIP claimed required repair to pass State inspection:
Rack and Pinion leaking
Front sway bar cracked
Exhaust hangers need replacing
Rocker panels gone (gone?)
Engine oil leak
Transmission leak
Subframe bushings are flat
LF axle seal
Needless to say they scared her to death, and told her she shouldn't be driving the car. Based on what she told me about the car and what I had been hearing about VIP and inspections, I told her to drive the car home and I would check it out my self.
My top side inspection revealed the following:
Two burned out tailights- I replaced them
Rocker panels rusted out
Car drove fine, no evidence of any steering or suspension issue.
Took the car down to a local mechanic that I've used before that is thorough, but fair on inspections. I told them nothing about the previous findings. Here is the list from him:
Sway bar is cracked (common problem on these cars, the sway bar is hollow and it cracks at the end, it was still fully functional)
Left inner tie rod has a minute amount of end play-fail
Rocker panels are perforated - fail
He also noted there seemed to be a transmission fluid leak and asked if the cooler hoses had been recently replaced. I had replaced them about 6 months ago. One of the fittings on the transmission was oozing, Tightened it up on the spot.
I asked him if that would fail and he told me that if a drop of anything hits the floor while he has it on the lift, he is supposed to fail it.
I asked him about the following:
Steering rack - no issues
Exhaust hangers - front one is getting a little thin, but no issues
engine oil leak - no evidence
sub frame bushings - no issues
Axle seal - there are no axle seals, the CV boots look fine.
So now I had another list to get the car back on the road:
Rocker panels
Sway bar
LF inner tie rod end
The mechanic quoted me ~$360 to replace the sway bar and tie rod end. My local body guy said $650 for the rockers, but he couldn't do it until the end of June.
I didn't really want to do the sway bar and tie rod end, but since I could get the parts for less than $100 and had some time I decided to do it myself.
After getting the sway bar and tie rod ends replaced ( I did both inner and outer on the driver's side) I decided to be proactive and get a new hanger welded on the exhaust since I was still waiting on the body shop appointment, I took the car to a local muffler shop and explained what I wanted done. They put the car on the rack and almost immediately came in to tell me I needed new brakes! These were the same brakes that VIP had measured the pads @ over 9mm and that I had been staring at while l changing the tie rod end and sway bar. The mechanic took me out and pointed at the rotor and said "see the rust, your brakes are bad". After explaining that I didn't need an inspection and pointing out that the rocker panels were rusted out and explaining to him that it was going to the body shop next week, I managed to finally get a new hanger welded on the exhaust system.
After living in this state for 17 years, I really wonder how someone who doesn't know anything about cars and has to hire a mechanic can afford to own a car here. If I had believed the VIP assesment, I would have been faced with junking a perfectly servicable vehicle. As it is, I will have spent ~$1000 to keep this car on the road for another year. None of the repairs really enhance the safety of my daughter, or the other vehicles on the road.
The good news is that in about a week, my daughter can have her car back. The bad news is the other daughter's car is due in August.
The Maine vehicle inspection system is nothing more than a government sponsored shakedown of it's citizens.
There is a stub that enters the transmission, but on front wheel drive cars that is not commonly considered part of the axle. There was no leak there either.
Maybe not, but it still called an axle seal.
Actually, it's called an output shaft seal.
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,carcode,1377042,parttype,8636,d,1999_BUI...
"Needless to say they [VIP] scared her to death, and told her she shouldn't be driving the car"
---A few years ago i worked a second job,weekends at one of their competitors.
I heard alot of VIP experiences first hand, not one single positive experience. For one,VIP has told a good number of customers not to even drive the vehicle out of their parking lot, to have it repaired or towed out, or they will call the police.
Anyone notice the dealers who are offering "free inspections" lately?
hahaha! VIP is always having "free inspections" specials.
I have a limited knowledge of auto mechanics because my old man was a Master Tec with 30 years of turning a wrench. With my limited skills, I could probably pass the test that would certify me as a basic auto tec if I wanted to. This is why places like VIP can get things wrong.
I take their basic inspection form and toss it in the trash every time.
With such a horrible track record come inspection time, why does anybody go to VIP? Not too far fetched to think the main reason they stay profitable is from performing unnecessary repairs and other attempts at selling a bill of goods to unsuspecting customers.
As long as those who "inspect" the cars can profit from fixing all the "problems" that they find, we will always have a totally corrupt system.
There should be an "inspection agency" that diagnoses any real problems found on a vehicle, and then there should be people who repair these problems. Or the system should be scrapped.
There are hundreds, maybe more, garages in Maine who profit greatly from finding problems that aren't!
The state is giving some people a "license to steal" with the current process!
WC
The thing that amazes me about this is that three different licensed inspection stations found three different sets of problems. In some cases they were fabricated, in some cases they failed to find defects that actually existed. It is good, emperical evidence that the inspection system is a fraud and a waste of time and money, as so many states have decided when they scrapped the vehicle inspection requirement alltogether.
I really can't understand why our elected representatives cannot do the right thing and eliminate this bogus program. It's a no-brainer.
Next rant --- proof of insurance documents.
mirgliP, thank you for the details, and the informative posts. For people such as myself, who have very limited automotive repair knowledge, this is very helpful.
I never take my vehicle to a chain-store for mechanical work, unless I have no other option. Instead, I use a local, small owner, who has been reasonable, reliable, and economical, and is well-known to residents for that service.
The only thing I buy at auto parts stores like VIP is an occasional air filter, or some windshield wipers. They install them for free, which is helpful. But, no way would I have my vehicle inspected/repaired at one, because I have heard the same kinds of stories about them.
Think of all the uninspected cars from out of state that are on our roads, why are we not being protected. lol
VIP sells an excellent snow tire made by Cooper and the price
is right, so I put up with the silly inspection thing. I would never let them repair my car.
Be careful what you wish for.
If "The State" did vehicle inspections, it would be done by a Dem controlled and set-up agency with no oversight, 17 deputy sub-assistant managers, 20-50 pages of paperwork per car, a retirement and wellnes program for all employees, hefty environmental fines for that "one drop" of oil (starting at a coupe of hundred bucks,) a five hour wait per car, and triple fees structure based on the worth of the car...(you know..to be "fair")
Of course, any Republican run program wouldn't be much better. Belching black smoke? Here, pay fee. Wheel fell off the car on the way to the lift? We'll sell you a new one. Signal lights don't work? Screw it, nobody uses them anyway. No brakes? the Dems left us an uphill drive anyway, you won't need 'em.
Remember Cartest?
Too bad there's not a like button for your post Bob.
Be careful what you wish for is right...
DEP would kill to have a presence at the inspection station in the scenario presented by Bob Higgins. A target rich environment for dripping hydrocarbon products and asbestos dust from brake pads and shoes. Don't forget the fines for every endangered critter that was stuck in your radiator or smeared on the windshied. Mandatory DNA testing of the bits and pieces of biological matter stuck in the tires or scattered under the chassis in the quest to look for more of them that became road kill. Then use the kill numbers to demand a design of a more bug friendly car or truck, closing of roads at certain times to allow uninterrupted mating of no-see-ums.....
I got my car inspection done at a small one bay garage on my way to work. I got a review from someone, who told me they were fair, and decided to use them. I like to talk shop once and a while, knowing that the business was new, I asked about some things.
I was told a State Inspector issued the licence. Apparently their is only one for the entire State of Maine. He was aware of some shops that get complains and he can revoke the shops licence.
If there is only one State employee dedicated to this program, its speaks volumes to how broke the State is.
New inspection rules take effect July 20th. As soon as I can get it I'll post a link to the new rules. The major changes are the elimination of many rules that had nothing to do with safety. It's not enough but it's the best we can get for now.
Thank you Doug.
The inspection regime is a license for extortion.
About 8 years ago I took our Chrysler LHS in for an inspection at the Chrysler dealer. I was told there was something under the hood, high up on the firewall around the steering column that was wrong with the steering. I had had no problems. Cost would be $1500 to fix. I said "no thanks." I left and had the inspection done at a local inspection station. So far, 8 years later, still no problems with the steering!
There are some states, I believe, that have no inspection programs.
Inspection programs hurt the poor.
My brother lives in Indiana. There's no safety inspections there. I've tried to research accident rates relative to states with and without inspections and find nothing worthwhile to compare.
charlie
Sen. Doug Thomas -- thank you for that information, and I will look forward to the link when you can supply it. Thanks so much, for all your hard work in Augusta!!!
The shakedown of the Maine motorist continues. Our beloved inspection program does little to improve safety because those in the know can get around it, and outsiders get fleeced by over enthusiastic shops.
Wetness around seals or hoses does not constitute a failure! It fails if it drips or leaves a puddle, but if it is just "wet", it passes. Brake lines with surface rust are ok, but the state police have put the fear of god into the technicians, so most will fail you "just to be safe".
Some years you may be failed for tires that are now acceptable, or door handles, or headlight wipers, or optional fog-lamps, the inspection manual is a nightmare and I have found that technicians do not stay current with rule changes, causing motorists to make unnecessary repairs.
This is a good example of why Maine is still and always will be a mess, there are many people working with their representatives and the state police to put some sanity into this mess, but are stonewalled by the entrenched bureaucrats. Doug tries to help us, but no real improvements have occurred in over a decade. I've given up trying to keep any older car on the road; it just isn't worth the hassle. Do you wonder why the Maine Auto Dealers are so interested in keeping the status-quo?
The system is broken:
Problem #1 Is there a real need today for the program.
Problem #2 if there is how do we regulate it?
Problem #3 if there is a need and regulation how do we do it?
Problem #4 how does regulation /implementation work.
#1 Is there a date base of accidents caused by inspectable issues to support program.
#2 At present function is overseen by St. Police ( a function not overly staffed) and certifying examiners ,w/ a mandatiory fee on process.
#3 At present the practice implementation is "privatized" (Note all here who hate gov. workers doing things and advocate privatization you have had it a long time)
#4. For the most part very well in identifying possible issues,not well given variables and diversity of what constitutes what and motive behind finding.
Conclusion:
There is not a answer to this beyond a drastic change in program . That can range from total elimination to a longer period between inspections and what has to be inspected when new vs. used etc..
That is never going to come from the State Police who will never give up a element of power. Nor will it come from the legislators who will listen to the SP
and be convinced there will be carnage if any change is made. W/in executive branch there will no offering to solve any new function if it costs money and requires more staff.
Nor will there be any generally excepted solution by public this is either a grand conspiracy against mankind or a totally excepted function of gov..
I would like to see some party start over answer the above questions and act on the results. First except that the function is related to the function of licensing vehicles and the privilege of driving them on roads.
I just got done changing the exhaust manifolds on my F250 cuz it failed inspection for "cracked exhaust mainifold on the right and the left is right behind it" among other issues. This is a T&M job at most shops with estimates ranging from $500-750 per side. I did it for $150 and 16 hours of labor during the last rainy weekend we had. You can imagine my joy once I acturally removed the old 'cracked' manifold and found no cracks. There was leakage prior to replacement but it was at the knuckle between manifold and collector pipe. There was no cracks in the cast metal.
VIP wanted $198 for a brake repair that my local mech'. did for $30 in parts.
I will buy tires at VIP as well as anything on the store shelf. That's all folks.
The economy is bad and repair places need the work. The "gestapo" will revoke a license if they so much as put the sticker on while the car is outside the garage. We could go without inspections but the garages won't allow it. Unfortunately, there will always be those that would drive real junk.
The motor vehicle inspection page located within the Maine State Police web site has some interesting information.
The MSP made 2952 visits/audits, received 742 complaints, yet only 407 instances of action against stations or technicians. I suppose a Freedom of Information request would be needed to see what the faces and stations were behind the numbers as well as what violation(s) earned the action. Could be anything from not locking up inspection stickers to not actually performing an inspection.
The one station that I know had its inspection license suspended is now so gun shy they will always err on the side of caution and flunk the car. It so happened I went to get my F-150 inspected and because the replacement muffler did have the word "Ford" anywhere on it, it was not acceptable. The inspection for worn front ball joints was performed incorrectly as well, not done the way Ford wants it tested. I called Lt. Brian Scott and he agreed with me and sent an e-mail clarifying the issues I brought up. I returned and showed the e-mail to the technician, still would not pass it, even though he was wrong and I had the proof in hand from the guy the runs the inspection program. No refund, no sticker. Needless to say I tell anybody and everybody to avoid that place like the plague.
How many actions do you suppose were the result of stations and/or technicians telling people they needed a johnson rod, the tailpipe angle was beyond specification, the windows go up and down too fast, the paint on the antenna is flaking off, the brake pads are too thick, or surface rust on the spare tire wheel was grounds to flunk the car? And how about the non-existent leaks, and all the other supposed violations of the inspection manual that have been brought up before on AMG?
If anything, call and/or e-mail complaints to Lt. Scott, just have your information straight and be polite. Fair to say most of us would like to see the inspection program expire, but its here, so in the meantime complain about the inspection technicians that are always looking to rip off the unsuspecting consumers.
The District of Columbia has official, city-run inspection stations (of course). The wait is anywhere from three to six hours after you arrive for your 8:30 a.m. "appointment." The inspectors are apparently chosen the same way police officers are -- if you score too high on the intelligence test, they don't hire you. A complete bureaucratic nightmare, and something no sane person would submit to without the threat of force.
ETA: There are stats out there on accident rates in inspection versus non-inspection states. I found them a few years back. There was a difference, but not what I considered a significant one.
I won't go into a VIP store unless it is the last resort. This goes back a long time but on the rare occasion I have to go in there I am reminded what a distasteful operation they run.
Yet I am amazed how many people I see in there herded up like sheet waiting to get fleeced because that is what they surely will get.
To those of you that buy the occasional tires, etc...your just enabling them. There are other places to go to!
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Axle seal - there are no axle seals, the CV boots look fine.
Really? The axles do not go into the transmission?