Smart meters, yet another intrusion?
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Because GE had to get paid back by the Prez.
wcs-
Say hacking a 'smart meter' were as easy as plugging a laptop into it. What is there to hack?
Again, you logging into a computer, logging on to an ISP, logging on this forum, and typing is MAGNITUDES worse for your 'personal security' than any conceivable hack in an electric meter could present.
If the electric company wants to shut your electric off or control the power coming into your house, they can already do that.
Incidentally, there are iPhone apps ( Clicky link ) that let you to control your lights via a home network.
SOUTH PORTLAND — In what may be a preview of next week's public hearing in Scarborough, more than 20 people attended a City Council workshop on Monday to protest the installation of "smart" electric meters in the city.
The workshop was intended to provide more information about the meters so councilors could consider adopting a resolution, similar to those passed in Scarborough and Cape Elizabeth, calling for a 90-day moratorium on the project.
Much of the discussion was taken up by a presentation by Central Maine Power Co. and Dr. Linda Erdreich of Exponent, a consulting firm hired by the utility.
Reader comments on some article sites claim that new Smart Meters interfere with online systems and equipment. Not sure whether there's any credibility to this, but it's being passed around.
Punk:
But cybersecurity experts said some types of meters can be hacked, as can other points in the Smart Grid's communications systems. IOActive, a professional security services firm, determined that an attacker with $500 of equipment and materials and a background in electronics and software engineering could "take command and control of the [advanced meter infrastructure] allowing for the en masse manipulation of service to homes and businesses."
Experts said that once in the system, a hacker could gain control of thousands, even millions, of meters and shut them off simultaneously.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-20/tech/smartgrid.vulnerability_1_smart-...
And again I say that *anything* can be hacked. Large scale industrial equipment can be hacked. The Pentagon can be hacked. On a wireless network? A person with much less than $500 worth of equipment can hack that. Use a cell phone? That can be hacked, too. Your car can be hacked. Your utility companies can already be hacked.
Nothing electronic is completely safe. There is FUD abound.
Punk's posts have moved this even further down my list of worries, it was near the bottom to begin with.
charlie
My concern rests with the utilities ability to change your energy use without your OK...some Government bureaucrat decides your house should be at an ideal 68 degrees so they 'help' you reach that figure. Or they screw with power when there is a shortage so as to damage your homes electronics with brownouts. This is step one in taking a households ability to regulate itself into the hands of the state.
There is no reason for these meters, none what so ever. The old meters work fine so why replace them? Not sure how much they cost but I am sure they cost more than the meter readers they are replacing. I hope I can hack into it so that someone else pays for electricity. But hey Obama's buddies at GE are making a bundle.
Islander - No, they don't cost as much as the meter reader.
re: jobs -- as I posted earlier, the vast majority of meter readers know of this technology coming to their company years in advance and every utility that I know of has offered "re-training" or offered to move those folks into equal jobs or offer training that helps their careers and tenure at the utility.
Boo on "G.E."
Fair disclosure-- The company I work for benefited directly from the "Smart Grid" money. I did not vote for Obama or support that money by the way. When I worked for MaineDOT, I never supported or voted for bond money, either. It seems that people like to throw money at me though. ;)
Islander, CMP received a grant of $96,000,000 from the DOE (stimulus funds...as in tax payer funded) to pay for the smart meters.
With these new meters, electrical rates will become tiered, and electricity costs will rise. Trying to cushion the blow, I am looking into LED lighting. Anyone using them?
Robert -
re: tiered/cost-rise
Has this been the case with all the other AMI implementations in the US and abroad? Please site.
Punk, it was the case back in the early 80's with CMP and the earlier version of these meters. These meters in Maine are not new. The only difference with the meters of the 80's and these, is the earlier ones could not transmit via wi-fi.
Anyway Punk, I take it that you cannot answer about LED lighting.
Robert,
All I know about LED lighting is that they're really bright when I drive by businesses that have them in their signs ;)
One brand I looked at is a 13 watt energy bulb and puts out 100 watts worth of light. These bulbs cost about $6.00 each. They have a 2 year warrantee.
There is a problem with a lot of these LED bulbs, they will not work in a 3 way lamp.
LED BULBS
And expensive.
pmrmsm, where did you find a 13 watt LED for 6 bucks?
I was posting the link when you asked.
pmrmsm, the bulbs in your link cost 50 bucks a piece. Home Depot has them a lot cheaper.
If anyone wants to see the "beauty" of LED lights in action, just take a wander down Kennebunk's new downtown at night. The new streetlamps have big 'ol LED lights, and I've renamed it "The Great White Way."
The best comparison is opening a refrigerated warehouse door in the middle of the night. "Cold and glaring" would be charitable.
Also, as one selectman pointed out Tuesday night, the lights are so bright at least one traffic signal is being rendered invisible from certain angles.
******
On the Smart Meters, photos in local papers show installers wearing serious protective gear - which, according to at least one expert I know, isn't the norm for regular meter installations. if Smart Meters pose no danger, then why the mini HazMat suits for installers?
Not sure about LED's for the house but they are great on the boat which are 12v. We switched to LED running lights and will be adding more in the future, they are not cheap but last longer and are brighter, also use less power.
And again other to spend money we do not have there is no reason to replace these meter unless it is to control usage by way of a tiered rate system or if that does get the desired results then just reducing what enters the home in the very near future.
I wonder how this will apply in future.
CMP is repsonsible for everything to the top of your drop! This is the pole above your meter box where lines are connected from street and of course the meter itself. Does the new instrution into our future lives change this?
How will this future be affected by he fact that most new appliances are alot more reliable than ten years ago.If old is still working new addresible appliances won't be purchased!
I will be real intereted in finding out what will block the siganl from these units?
Why would CMP want to sell less electricity?? Looks to me that CMP just wants to charge a higher price at peak times ....knowing full well that most people won't change their consumption patterns. Same production costs and a higher rate of return...... smart business on their part.
WE do have choices although they may not be convenient..... conserve, change habits or switch to gas appliances. I cook and heat my water with LP as well as some of my heating needs......At least LP is subject to supply and demand and has competition which tends to keep the price down. Will any of those changes make electricity cheaper for us in the future? Doubtful at best CMP will just ship any excess out of state.......
I don't have a fixed position on smart meters, but the post above is ridiculous.
People do change their behavior based on prices if they know the cost savings and the alternatives are made clear. A good example of this is people getting up in the middle of the night for Black Friday sales.
If people are charged more for electricty at peak times, and less at off times, many will change their habitsto save money. Some businesses will change schedules to benefit from lower prices.
There is a significant difference between the demand for electricity at peak times vs. the demand at off-peak times. If prices can be used to avoid the need for new power plants that are used primarily at peak times, it could reduce the overall cost of power.
There are lots of questions to be asked here and skepticism is a good thing. But using pricing to reduce the need for new construction should not be ruled out.
It should also be noted that CMP no longer produces electricty. It does not have electricity to ship out of state.
Dan, I lived through these smart meters in the early 80's. No matter how hard we tried, the bill just went up. We waited until after 8 pm to shower, ate supper after 8, washed and dried clothe at midnight, you name it, we did it. The meter ruled our lives. We finally moved to an apartment without a smart meter.
CMP needs a certain amount of income to survive, it won't make any difference in when or how you use power, they will adjust accordingly, just like any other behaviour modification tax/tactic used such as a cigarette tax, gas tax etc. When less is used they up the tax, because they need the money.
There is no need for the meters other than to monitor who is using what, when. And to help out the Ones good friend GE/NBC and those unions.
Here's another question, more of a DA position - (devil's advocate, not district attorney, although I'm sure at times they seem the same) -- why should electricity cost more at some times than others?
Utility companies aren't like clothing stores - consumers aren't free to "shop around" for the best bargain on water, sewer, or electricity. Residents are stuck with whatever utility serves their area.
Why should some consumers essentially be penalized for working a 9-5 shift, instead of an 11-8 am shift? To me, the fair thing would seem to be one price, around the clock, for all residents. Let everyone pay their bill strictly on the amount of usage, and have done with it.
Otherwise, we get into a situation where electricity becomes like the excise tax - unequal payment for the same service.
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Punk I agree with you about hacking. So why attach hackable meters that can communicate two ways and affect the stability of the grid (or turn off our power) when the existing meters can't be hacked (yes I know they can be tinkered with but not in the true meaning of "hacked")?