Topsham to vote on taking property

14 replies [Last post]
Anonymous

I think that if you researched it you would probably find that all the cities and towns in Maine have "taken" private property through condemnation(eminent domain) less than a dozen times in the last twenty years.

Anonymous

By DENNIS HOEY, Portland Press Herald WriterTOPSHAM — Voters will consider whether the town should use its right of eminent domain to make way for a new town center. Town officials are asking for voter approval to take a Cumberland Farms convenience store and gas station at 100 Main St. The special town meeting will begin at 7 p.m. Wednesday at Mount Ararat High School.

PPH

Butch Moore
User offline. Last seen 8 hours 17 min ago. Offline
Joined: 11/20/1999

quote: Brown and town selectmen have recommended the town offer $350,000 for Cumberlands Farms, which is $70,000 more than its assessed value.

Isn't "assessed value" something much different from "market value"?[ 08-22-2005: Message edited by: Butch Moore ]

Anonymous

Assessed value is supposed to be the same as market value, but often is not because values are not kept up to date.In this case, the Town has purchased neighboring properties from willing sellers so there are recent nearby sales on which to base their estimates. If an agreement can't be worked out, a judge will decide which side makes the best case and the town will have to pay what the court says.

Lenny
User offline. Last seen 1 year 4 days ago. Offline
Joined: 12/21/2004

George, Do owners who have their properties "acquired" by a municipality thru condemnation have the same rights as those who lose their property to the state thru eminent domain? Do they settle their cases in front of the State Claims commission or in a different venue?[ 08-22-2005: Message edited by: Lenny ]

Anonymous

At least the people will have a say in this one. I am sure they would have just taken the property if the town gov't had the balls

Anonymous

quote:Originally posted by Lenny:
George, Do owners who have their properties "acquired" by a municipality thru condemnation have the same rights as those who lose their property to the state thru eminent domain? Do they settle their cases in front of the State Claims commission or in a different venue?

They have the same rights, but I think such disputes are resolved in court when a municipality is involved.

Anonymous

quote:Originally posted by Woosta:
At least the people will have a say in this one. I am sure they would have just taken the property if the town gov't had the balls

In town meeting towns, the town meeting must approved uses of eminent domain unless an ordinance or charter grants the authority to some other body.I have been following the Topsham issue in the papers and it does seem like the town has really tried to reach a deal with the land owner.

Melvin Udall
User offline. Last seen 14 hours 37 sec ago. Offline
Joined: 05/01/2002

I thought a business owner told me commercial property is valued differently than residential property....that there is a component based on income generation, beyond what the "market value" of the property is.In essence, he told me there was an "income tax" component to the property tax he paid on his office building.That would seem to make sense....the owner isn't simply giving up a "spot"; he's giving up a revenue stream.

Anonymous

There are various ways to determine the value of commercial property. The income method is one method. The income method can get at the extra value of a location to a retail establishment. A retail location on one corner can be much more valuable than a building of the same size and quality just down the street. But market value still comes down to what the property would sell for on the open market. In the Topsham case, the town bought neighboring property which is also zoned commercial so that would give some indication of the market value of the conveniance store.

JIMV
User offline. Last seen 2 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 03/22/2005

quote:Originally posted by George:
There are various ways to determine the value of commercial property. The income method is one method. The income method can get at the extra value of a location to a retail establishment. A retail location on one corner can be much more valuable than a building of the same size and quality just down the street. But market value still comes down to what the property would sell for on the open market. In the Topsham case, the town bought neighboring property which is also zoned commercial so that would give some indication of the market value of the conveniance store.

While I believe you present the case well, I do not believe any government entity buying property reflects its real value as the people doing the selling know the next step is for the city to steal the land at their price. it is not the same as another private business making an offer that can be really rejected.

Anonymous

You might be right in some cases, but many local officials are also reluctant to use eminent domain and negotiate in good faith to avoid having to use the process. In the Topsham case, one of the other properties that they bought was one the market and the town paid pretty close to the listed price. In this situation, we are talking about a Cumberland Farms store. There are a million of them and plenty of other convenience stores in Topsham. It should not be too hard to come up with a market price for the property.

Lenny
User offline. Last seen 1 year 4 days ago. Offline
Joined: 12/21/2004

Here is my understanding: When the state takes a property thru EMinent Domain, it is required to pay the Fair Market Value as determined by a qualified appraiser. The owner will recieve that amount and the state will assume ownership of the property on the day of condemnation, regardless of whether the parties agree on the amount paid. The state will often negotiate for additional payments without going to court. If the owner chooses, he/she can refer the case to the SCC for a hearing in front of the Commission. The process may be different for municipal takings.

JIMV
User offline. Last seen 2 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 03/22/2005

Another problem is the tendency, perhaps not found in maine, for a city to first rezone the land making it immediately less valuable and then paying the new reduced 'fair market' value.I believe there should be two rules enecated into law.1. The city can NEVER offer less than the greatest fair market value for the property over the last 5 years (this prevents stealing through zoning changes)2. The city can never, under any circumstance, pay less than the higherst taxed value for the property over the last 5 years. (this prevents scams where they offer less than they have taxed)At least this circumstance appears to reflect a real government use beyond greed for more taxes.

Anonymous

Can you cite any examples of where a Maine municipality violated any of the rules you describe above? I think you are setting up a strawman to attack.