Waco style confrontation looms in Nevada

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TMacKenzie
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Another possible twist,

Another possible twist, worthwhile the chase. Wilco, Rebecca.

Calvin
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You are seeing the

You are seeing the outcroppings of a government that the forefathers warned you about.

Islander
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I think Obama needs to go out

I think Obama needs to go out and have a BS summit to exacerbate , I mean diffuse the situation.

Roger Ek
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TMackenzie gave us the Harry

TMackenzie gave us the Harry Reid side of the story. Here is what actually happened. Harry wasn't there. Shiree Bundy Cox was. Hundreds of ranchers from all over the West are coming to the Bundy ranch for a rally.

Message from Cliven Bundy's daughter.... the Real Story

Posted by Darla Dawald on April 11, 2014 at 9:59pm in Patriot Action Alerts
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From Cliven Bundy's Daughter, This is the explanation of what is and has occurred!
Hi, I have had people ask me to explain my dad's stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it s in a nut shell.

My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the several of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.

These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights. Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches.

My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these money's against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they're own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penance he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren't doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.

So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes. In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn't work, they used the endangered species card. You've already heard about the desert tortoise.

Well that didn't work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now their desperate. It's come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.

Now you may be saying," how sad, but what does this have to do with me?" Well, I'll tell you. They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again. Next, it's Utah's turn. Mark my words, Utah is next. Then there's the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn't paid them, those cattle do belong to him.

Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad's signature on it. They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Aucion and sell them. All with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are? Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks"

Shiree Bundy Cox

Abacus
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TMacKenzie, Bundy tried to

TMacKenzie, Bundy tried to make payments to the county but the BLM took control from them. He then sent in the form to the BLM but modified it back to the original number of cattle and it was the BLM who rejected it. So your post is disambiguous because it makes Bundy out to seem like he did not put forth a good faith effort. Keep in mind it was the BLM who told Bundy he could only have 15% of his cattle from one year to the next, effectively putting him out of business, as they did with the other ranchers in the area.

My suggestion is to do some reading on both sides of the case and not just one if you want the whole picture. If Bundy is such a criminal, then why were the other 52 ranchers put out of business in the same manner but are now standing with Bundy, who refuses to do as the BLM says. I think a more appropriate anology would be if the DMR told the lobstermen they could only haul 15% of the lobsters they did the previous year. Do you think there would be some resistance? Keep in mind the feds do not own the land here, they merely manage it, the land still belongs to the state.

But that aside, do you stand with the BLM on their 'first amendment areas' they set up on public roads, the no fly zone they instituted this morning (they have that kid of power?), the guns from private citizen's they're confiscating (which they have no right to do, BTW), and the overall 'authority' they are giving themselves? They are a land management branch of the US, not a law enforcement branch. That alone should give you pause as to what is actually happening. That the government has removed the sources to previous Bundy trials and interactions should make you wonder what they are hiding. Why remove the content unless there is something there they don't want out in the open? Makes no sense.

Throw in that the BLM is euthanizing those desert tortoises they claim to protect, which was the original cause for removing the grazing and water rights, and then couple that with the Reid solar business, and a picture is starting to emerge, and it is not a good picture.

Islander
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Lets see what the BLM does

Lets see what the BLM does about this next issue in Utah and wild horses
http://news.yahoo.com/wild-horses-targeted-roundup-utah-rangeland-clash-...

TMacKenzie
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Actually, Abacus and Ek, I

Actually, Abacus and Ek, I have read both sides of the story from as many differing sources available, both partisan and neutral, including the above letter (which I found in part disingenuous and in part most likely true). Not saying my opinion is the only righteous POV, in fact you make some good points, but in situations like this I always make an effort to suss out info presented by both sides. The BLM has a lot of competing interests to protect here, and one of those interests is the American taxpayer. My biggest problem with Bundy is his sense of entitlement, acting as though he owns something he simply does not own. Anyone interested in following this story (I find it fascinating) would do well to do a quick read of the Wikipedia entry on the BLM going forward.

TMacKenzie
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For instance, the BLM

For instance, the BLM actually is a law enforcement entity. And the confiscation of guns is, at present, a rumor, not a fact.

Ugenetoo
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It would appear that he IS

It would appear that he IS entitled to the use of this property.
The US, Nevada, and Clarke County governments changed the rules.
It must be that living, breathing, open to interpretation Constitution that Obama is basing this travesty of justice on.
You know, the one he spits on daily.

Bruce Libby
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Sorry boys:

Sorry boys:

http://news.yahoo.com/militia-members-ultra-conservatives-rally-cause-ne...

The big government denies what some wanted.
Given the situation a good decision .
Maybe both parties will now will be able to find a solution with out the hype.

taxfoe
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A big tip of the hat to TJC

A big tip of the hat to TJC for posting the Hage judgement link although, I think you got it wrong and Roger Ek is right. It looks like they pinned 2 of 44 (?) trespasses on him (no thanks to color blind witness) but he prevailed on everything else? Regardless, it's a NV case and very relevant to the Bundys. The judgement reveals the many layers of the legal onion which confront the Hages, Bundys, you pros and we lay folk.

Another big tip to Roger Ek for the Darla post. If I may paraphrase, the families position is that they quietly enjoy everything they've ever owned, they never abandoned or surrendered anything and are not subject to any alterations 'other parties' may have undertaken, regardless of the intent. The language in the Hage ruling(s) appears to back them up. One more tip of the hat to grandfathers everywhere.

The UT, AZ and NV water wars are legendary. I'd love to know how much $ the Bundys have been offered. And whatever became of Kelly?

TMacKenzie
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Don't you all find it curious

Don't you all find it curious that none of Bundy's fellow ranchers have stood up for him? I looked all over the web and found nothing except for out of state militias and protesters traveling to his aid. Just when I found ONE entry that appeared to be "rancher supports Bundy" from Utah. . .turns out it was a relative. I spent a lot of time reading local news accounts of this situation, back a number of years. It would appear that Bundy has little or no local support.

Mainelion
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I seem to remember that there

I seem to remember that there was little to no local support for some folks in Birmingham a while back too. What's your point?

ewv
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To undermine the protest by

To undermine the significance of the protest by trying to spread speculative doubts?

Nevada governor decries BLM in rancher dispute

"Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn't be penalized by an 'overreaching' agency."

"Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval pointed earlier to what he called 'an atmosphere of intimidation,' resulting from the roundup and said he believed constitutional rights were being trampled."

"Heller said he heard from local officials, residents and the Nevada Cattlemen's Association and remained 'extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure.'"

Rebecca
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BREAKING NEWS

BREAKING NEWS

It appears that the overwhelming support from around the country has had it's effect, While coming home tonight, I heard on 103.9 that the BLM is pulling out. The statement was made that they were concerned about the "hundreds" of protestors and ARMED MILITIA that have continued to arrive at the Bundy ranch. The news report stated the the BLM was concerned about the safety of their employees. As well they should be. These government thugs had no problem assaulting private citizens when they thought that they had the upper hand but when the tide turned they cut and run. The radio report further stated that they would continue to press through the courts to implement their agenda.

The picture of the government "snipers" showing themselves has been roundly condemned by those who are professionals. No true sniper ever gives his position away knowingly. This was purely for intimidation purposes.

If the BLM people registered by name in the local hotels and motels, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that their names are already known and that their home addresses are already being discovered by patriots.

I also read that in a previous post that only one neighbor had publicly acknowledged support for Clive Bundy and that, only because he was a relative. I have a suspicion that like people around my neck of the woods, everybody is a relative in one manner or another. Also, like the good card players that they most likely are, they play close to the vest and do not willingly identify themselves prior to it being necessary.

Harry Reid's involvement is most likely to play a big part in this opera. This is a big election year public relations disaster for the Dems and Obama. Government armed agents threatening honest citizens AND declaring that the Constitution and Bill of Rights does not apply is not something on which to campaign.
Trying to throw American Ranchers out of business in order to give American soil to the Communist Chinese does no play well in Reno or Vegas, never mind the rest of cattle country.

THIS is why the government fears armed citizens. THIS is why citizens must be armed.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/04/12/Federal-government-withdra...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/04/12/302351783/u-s-agency-back...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/04/12/302351783/u-s-agency-back...
note: read the comments here. They are most interesting.

ewv
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Rebecca Sat, 04/12/2014: "I

Rebecca Sat, 04/12/2014: "I also read that in a previous post that only one neighbor had publicly acknowledged support for Clive Bundy and that, only because he was a relative. I have a suspicion that like people around my neck of the woods, everybody is a relative in one manner or another. Also, like the good card players that they most likely are, they play close to the vest and do not willingly identify themselves prior to it being necessary."

That someone on the other side of the country claims he doesn't know of neighbors supporting Clive Bundy does not mean that they don't. Ranchers in the west have been protesting the viro-driven Federal agencies and their denial of property rights for a long time. All the neighbors are most likely members of the Nevada Cattlemen's Association, which is supporting him and which has taken a similar stand against the Federal government for decades. This is not a new or isolated problem despite the common lack of knowledge of it in the east. It is very big and very serious.

Roger Ek
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It seems hat the BLM did not

It seems hat the BLM did not want to deal with 300 angry ranchers from all over the West. The federal cattle rustlers gave the cattle back.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/feds-give-release-cattle-seized-neva...

Bruce Libby
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Or was it a wise decision not

Or was it a wise decision not to deal with a "militia" that had become involved ?

Roger Ek
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It was wise. The fed spin is

It was wise. The fed spin is that they didn't want to confront a militia. It wasn't a militia. It was a support group of concerned ranchers tired of federal bullying. People are becoming fed up with fed bullying. It's time to just say, "No". Whether it's Nevada, Connecticut or Maine, people are fed up with government overreach.

Back in 1993, while I was on a business trip to Newfoundland, a recently elected Minister of Parliament approached our table. He was acquainted with my guest and I was introduced to him. The Minister said that it is always good to do business with the U. S. and asked me what I thought about the recent election. The man was a Liberal. How could I answer this man honestly? I had only a moment to formulate a reply:

“In my experience, Canadians and Americans both are good honest, hard working people; and I do not think they so much need to be governed as they need to be served.”

The Minister stepped back. Everybody looked surprised. The Minister said, “That’s a great thought. I’m going to use it in my next speech.” 12/22/93

Bruce Libby
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Then how come a "Militia "

Then how come a "Militia " member was just on NBC Today ,interviewed yesterday, present at event ?

Just like most of this issue it is a bunch of hyped up BS that included too many people who were there for other purposes.
I love Mr. Bundys' call for them the gov. to get off "his "land !
If it was his land why was he paying grazing rights or in this case not paying them ?

Bruce Libby
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Then how come a "Militia "

Then how come a "Militia " member was just on NBC Today ,interviewed yesterday, present at event ?

Just like most of this issue it is a bunch of hyped up BS that included too many people who were there for other purposes.
I love Mr. Bundys' call for them the gov. to get off "his "land !
If it was his land why was he paying grazing rights or in this case not paying them ?

Islander
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Eventually one of yhere

Eventually one of yhere incidents will become our Arab Spring, imo

Bruce Libby
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maybe

maybe
Maybe but hopefully with a less crowed field with too many players on the field under different rules and purposes.

In the quest for martyrs it is always better to look for the best one ,I am not sure this one is it !

Roger Ek
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Bruce wonders:

Bruce wonders:
"Then how come a "Militia " member was just on NBC Today"

Because it is the mainstream media and that is their mantra.

Militia = bad.
Tea party = bad.
Grass roots = bad.

If you run screaming into the street with your rifle and you are the only one out there, go back inside. it isn't time yet.

Abacus
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Bundy does own the land he

Bundy does own the land he lives on and on which his ranch sits. While he does not own the land his cattle graze on, he does own the water and grazing rights and has since before the BLM existed, therefore he is grandfathered in the system and those rights must be maintained. The BLM changed the terms of those conditions and expected him to just accept them, but he did not so he counter offered and the BLM refused. The result is what we have today.

There were some militia people there (ironically enough, not from NV) but the vast majority of the thousand+ people were ordinary citizens, neighbors, and residents. Some came from many states away and none were invited but felt compelled to show up, and were welcomed with gratitude. I watched the whole event unfold on multiple sites and with live streaming video, so those just relying on lamestream media (even Fox) don't have a clue as to what actually happened and when. Clive and his sister were posting on one of the sites directly.

The BLM backed down because they were outnumbered greatly and knew it, but also because it received so much media attention. The pro-Bundy people were peaceful and not the aggressors and purely in a defensive posture. It was the BLM who had trained their 'evil assault rifles' on the civilian population and there are tons of pictures to show this. This is also a direct violation of the BLM use on firearms, which strictly prohibit the training of firearms on humans. If the scene were so volatile and dangerous, why was traffic on I-15 still allowed? And TM, only part of the BLM is law enforcement, and it's a very small part (their own number show 200 LEO and 70 Supervisors), the rest are part of the management aspect, so not all of them get to brandish firearms. They are supposed to MANAGE the land, which is still owned by the state, so it is not federal.

Oh, and that endangered desert tortoise? Well, it's just 'threatened' and not on the endangered list, there is a big difference. And if the BLM were so concerned for the desert tortoise, which have been coexisting with cattle for over 100 years, why is the BLM being sued for inaction over those same tortoises and are euthanizing some due to budget cuts. So wait a minute, if they're so in need of protection the BLM will spend $3 Million to 'fight' the Bundy Ranch, why are they euthanizing them?

This whole incident is a mass media boondoggle and very little is being reported accurately. Even one of the 'reporters' on site was asked to leave due to erroneous reporting and making up stories that were not true, expecting people to believe them just because they were there.

This is not done, not by a longshot. They know this and are not becoming complaisant. It'll be interesting to see where it leads.

Ironically enough, most of the BLM correspondence and decisions on the Bundy Ranch were removed from the web (they are seen on a search screen, however) and even the court cases on Bundy were removed. That's too bad as I wanted to read them for historical reference.

Bruce Libby
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May the martyr live long and

May the martyr live long and prosper enough to pay what he owes!
Abacus I was relying on the guy with the gun pronouncing he was a militia member standing in front of others with a militia flag !
I agree that was pretty lame.

BlueJay
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I read somewhere that Harry

I read somewhere that Harry Reid precipitated this whole thing because he wants the land to go to a friend for a solar power farm. Can't find that article now.

This blog post talks more about that. Interesting.... https://undercoverporcupine.bangordailynews.com/2014/04/11/politics/neva...

ccoose
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Don't you hate to see the

Don't you hate to see the Entitled cut from their welfare?

It's painful to watch and see how they exist once cut from the government teat.

Jeffersonian
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BlueJay-You might be

BlueJay-You might be referring to the recent Infowars.com internet post that went viral. I believe Rebecca made mention of it once on this thread. It's one of the lead items on the Drudge Report. It suggests the utter uselessness of the MSM.

If the connection between Harry Reid and the Chinese "Green" project/ Land grab proves to be true, the Majority Senate Leader is as corrupt as that LA Congressman who was caught with a freezer full of $100 bills from political payoffs. We'll see. See link below.

http://www.infowars.com/feds-back-down-from-bundy-siege-after-infowars-e...

Rebecca
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Updated info from a source

Updated info from a source within the DHS
.

To put it bluntly, the people are being hoodwinked into believing that the situation is being resolved. It is not. It is a strategic de-escalation to fool the public.

Date: Saturday, 12 April 2014
Time: 1840 ET
To: Steve Quayle
From Doug Hagmann

At 1750 hours ET, I was contacted by my source within the Department of Homeland Security regarding the current situation at the Bundy Ranch. To put it bluntly, the people are being hoodwinked into believing that the situation is being resolved. It is not. It is a strategic de-escalation to fool the public. This source stated that the retreat of the BLM agents and the release of the cattle was actually crafted as a potential plan yesterday (Friday, 11 April 2014) based on the following:

1. A military assessment of satellite and drone surveillance imagery of the “patriot resistance. Drones under the control of the U.S. military were in use, taking real-time photographic images of not just the activity at the ranch, but "identifying the protesters, any arms and any supplies they might have or be carrying. “Mission accomplished.”
2. Real-time communication intercepts between patriots on-site and their off-site support;
3. Active monitoring of internet traffic regarding the coverage of events at ranch;
4. The monitoring of real-time video from the scene.

This source stated that a response by the patriot movement was anticipated, although exceeded their expectations. Although this was a real operation, they also ran this as a test case for future government operations once they saw the response. They were also actively managing the media, in some cases threatening to cut off White House access to anyone covering the event.

Despite this, the coverage by the alternative media began to create a public relations problem that was not easily managed. Note the lack of acknowledgment by the White House regarding this event. They are intentionally framing it as a state issue, despite the fact that all federal response has been and continues to be from the White House. There is a reason for this – a reason that has not been identified in any of the public reports to date. I will explain in further detail in a follow-up report on Sunday, after this source attends [redacted] to obtain more specific information about future federal operations. Regardless, according to this source, the government will take back ‘their land’ as they must to fulfill international obligations. It was never about grazing rights or anything other than (1) “securing clear title” to the land, and (2) further demonizing any patriotic resistance. It is my understanding, based on the information from this source, that it is a critical task to create a situation that will also advance their agenda of gun control and confiscation.

A more detailed report will follow on Sunday, 13 April 2014, with additional and much more specific information about their inside plans and future operations.PLEASE MAKE THIS VIRAL!

The updated report has not yet been posted. IMHO this passes the straight face test.

http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=877

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