Waco style confrontation looms in Nevada

197 posts / 0 new
Last post
Roger Ek
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
The best coverage of the

The best coverage of the defeat of the cattle rustlers appears in a foreign newspaper. The MSM here is unwilling to report what actually happened. Here is the link to the London Daily Mail coverage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603026/Senator-speaks-favor-Nev...

woodcanoe
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/22/2005 - 1:01am
Report from the "Battle of

Report from the "Battle of Bunkerville", from one who was there, 4/12/14

......."Spent yesterday at the "Battle of Bunkerville", what a great day! I have attached some pictures, which you are more than welcome to publish.........My reflections of the day after getting a good night's sleep are that two factors are very important in securing victories over the Fed agents (or any tyrant attack dogs),NUMBERS and ARMS!"......

......."One or another isn't good enough. The "Occupy" movement only had numbers and were eventually put down and disbanded. A few armed "domestic terrorists" would be put down like the Branch Davidians in Waco........Yesterday we had a thousand+, 80% armed group of patriots standing up for the Bundy's against the 30-40 armed BL:M and contractor forces, and we won. The BLM left, the Clark Co. sheriff had no option, but to stand up for the Bundy's (I am sure he didn't like that position he was forced into)"........

There are two bridges on I-15, over a wash with a crude road in it. These two bridges are about 75 yds apart. The federales had set up their "cattle pen" and staging area just beyond the west bound bridge, and hundreds of good citizens, many on horseback,and who knows how many with arms, were facing the federal men, right under that bridge! To say the federales were "outgunned" by the common man, on this day, was an understatement. The situation looked like this just before the feds backed down.

Meanwhile back up on top of the east bound bridge, well within easy rifle range of the federal men were several guys like this one, readily hidden behind convenient concrete barriers provided as guard rails along the bridge.

This has aptly been describe as a place where something real bad almost happened and I could not argue with that a bit!

To continue with the letter from above:

......."Perhaps we should call this Fifth Generation warfare? The keys again are large numbers of ARMED people. They could not deploy tear gas for fear of getting shot, plus the wind was blowing back in their direction. They could do nothing but threaten us with words (which no one could understand due to bad speakers and the wind). We kept advancing with the "cavalry" in the front center and everyone else either on the sides, behind the horses or on the bridge above. The BLM hid behind their trucks and SUVs, but you could tell they wanted to leave. Finally, they said they would leave and release the cattle, if we would back up about 50 yards. The Bundy's asked the crowd to back up, and we did. Then they retreated, and two hours later the cowboys brought the cattle through the wash back towards the Bundy Ranch".........

Signed: "Bill from Arizona"

The federalmen must certainly have been scared, I surely would have been, in their shoes. But a valuable lesson was taught here. As they say "There will be no more free Wacos" and the people here to protest the federal move, was a good lesson for the government who thinks that we exist to serve them rather than vice versa.

This is by no means over. Either the feds will try a different more peacable tactic, or maybe they will call in the troops. Either way I bet the lessons of Bunkerville will not be lost on those who will be called upon to enforce laws created by corrupt folks like Harry Reid. The police in NY have told Cuomo to stick his new unconstitutional gun laws where the sun doesn't shine, as they don't intend to enforce them.

Hey libbies, how do you feel when laws are made and good American citizens tell you to go do something to yourself? What good are "laws" that citizens won't obey?

WC

ewv
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 9 hours ago
Joined: 04/19/2000 - 12:01am
Drone alert:

Drone alert:

ccoose Sun, 04/13/2014 "Don't you hate to see the Entitled cut from their welfare? It's painful to watch and see how they exist once cut from the government teat."

The progressives know how unpopular their mass welfare statism is among normal, productive people, so in the leftist propagandists' usual manner they claim anyone they want to demonize is taking "welfare". They invert the meaning of words because they don't dare openly tell people what they are after and want to manipulate the populace by exploiting words misused to mean their opposite.

The forced dependency of ranchers on "Federal lands" is a direct result of the early progressives prohibiting private property in the west. In the late 1800s Federal policy reversed the policy of guiding and helping settlers claim unowned land in the west (such as through the Homestead Act), replacing it with the policy of a permanent Federal kingdom owning and controlling the land. The late 1800s and early 1900s was the period in which the big Federal land agencies such as the US Forest Service and the National Park Service, the Antiquities Act granting Presidential authority to decree National Monuments, etc. were initiated as Federal control over vast areas of land became entrenched.

This is why ranchers in the west are dependent on Federal lands today: private property rights were prohibited on principle even though the Federal government was never authorized to permanently control the land. The ranchers were not allowed to claim ownership of parcels large enough to sustain ranching in the dry regions of the west, and further claims were then banned outright, resulting in a mixed pattern of private inholdings and some water and grazing rights within larger public lands that we have today -- along with the impossible maze of regulations, fees, and "special use permits" imposed as a means of control under which anyone can be found "guilty" of something for some political purpose.

For the history behind this, including that of of the original policies that made it possible in defiance of Constitutional protections and the few private rights (such as water rights) still possible within the Federal kingdom, see Hage, Storm Over Rangelands.

The viro pressure group lobby has exploited this statist "legal" situation for decades as they try to drive the American cowboy out of existence. They spin and redefine the rancher's plight as if they are "welfare recipients" "subsidized" by public land. They do this to demonize their victims and to manipulate and redirect sympathy towards the viro agenda of getting rid of the cattlemen for viro preservationism and collective ownership and control.

BLM and USFS harassment under the influence of the viros entrenched within the agencies is a direct manifestation of this. Their propaganda ignores that people who are banned from settling and owning previously unowned land are forced into this collectivist dependency with no acknowledgement of what should have been the rightful claim to the land, but prevented by government statist policy. Most people in the east know nothing about either this background or the viro agenda exploiting it, and the leftist drones are always eager to faithfully parrot the "welfare" propaganda line to demonize any western rancher who begins to receive sympathetic attention.

It is not the ranchers' fault. If the early American colonists had been prevented from settling and claiming private property beginning in the east we would all be accused of being "subsidized" today. Coose might as well try to demonize the victims of the Soviet Gulag for being on "welfare" because they depended on their captors for survival in Siberia in a country where private property was prohibited.

Reaganite
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 06/21/2008 - 4:05pm
Fox News just ran an

Fox News just ran an interview with one of the leaders of the groups who showed up to assist the Bundys. The gentleman who was interviewed stated that after a strategy session, they decided to move the women in the group to the front, between the feds and the group. The idea was that if the feds started shooting, the news crews would get footage of women being shot by the feds.

Does that bother anyone else? Is the use of human shields by patriot groups acceptable, when the very same tactic is used by the Taliban, et al?

Islander
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 43 min ago
Joined: 02/13/2009 - 12:16pm
Depends if they forced the

Depends if they forced the women to be shields or not, I know some women I would rather have on the front lines rather than some men. Besides progressives like women in combat, a level playing field, gender neutral, equality for all etc

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
Yes it does Reaganite.

Yes it does Reaganite.

But listen to the rhetoric and the messages being communicated and is it any surprise ?
Not to me. Does it take away from the legitimate issues? Yes, it does.
This backs up what I have gotten from these threads. The "they will make us fight" ,has become by design
with such utterings to ,"we want to fight" !
Yet there are those who will go to any length to support that.
I posted a comment about a interview with a professed militia member yet the response is, that wasn't a militia , that was NBC mantra.
I have to say add the firearm, the dress, the flag ,behind him and his admissions it was real easy to see he was a member.
If not then he was a liar.

On another level that wins an award for total ignorance in support of some cause .

Abacus
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/14/2011 - 12:21pm
Fox News just ran an

Fox News just ran an interview with one of the leaders of the groups who showed up to assist the Bundys. The gentleman who was interviewed stated that after a strategy session, they decided to move the women in the group to the front, between the feds and the group. The idea was that if the feds started shooting, the news crews would get footage of women being shot by the feds. ~Reaganite

Part of the issue on the Bundy Ranch pages were people who were telling stories to the media that were untrue. It was so bad one of Bundy's sisters came on and told people to stop "We urge that everyone keeps the rumors down, There is lots of information we are looking into and will confirm by the end of the weekend. Please stop spreading rumors, we cannot get to everyone questions." and more "There are numerous reports of Rumors about some crazy stuff. Remember, Rumors are rumors. Pictures help support your argument and so does video. Rumors can be true but remember not to believe everything you hear, and dont contribute to a RUMOR. Thank you everyone for your love and support. We are trying to share everything we can that we know is factual!"

I have not seen the Fox News interview, but the numerous pictures all over the web do not show women in the front of the group, and women were not the ones to advance on the BLM compound to retrieve the cows. But, one of the directives from the Bundy Ranch was to record everything and for people to leave their firearms in their vehicles.

They also posted this:
"Also, please do not post information on BLM employee's homes, names, etc. Yes a lot of them or some have harmed people we know and love but we do not want to stoop to that level and the Bundy Family wants everyone to treat one another as humans"

And as to the gun confiscation, here is but one of the posts: "Ryan Payne one of the Main Militia who has been here protecting Cliven has reported it was HIS brother in law who reported the confiscating of weapons. This has been confirmed by Militia. If this happens to anyone else please call us or put it on blast, if you can get pictures, please do! Thank you for your support everybody!"

A lot of misinformation is being spread to discredit the Bundy's and turn the tide of public support. All I'm saying is do some research before believing anything.

Roger Ek
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
I don't think the next shot

I don't think the next shot heard round the world will be fired by a citizen. Eventually these unjustified executions of unarmed grandmothers, children and dogs will exceed citizen tolerance.

Abacus
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/14/2011 - 12:21pm
This is but one legal

This is but one legal analysis of the issue and I have seen a few with like conclusions. I am no lawyer but this seems pretty clear to me. Keep in mind the author is obviously biased, so once again, please do your own research.

Who actually “owns” America’s land? A deeper look at the Bundy Ranch crisis

woodcanoe
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/22/2005 - 1:01am
Millions of decent hard

Millions of decent hard working American citizens are fed up with the growing "abuses of power" by government at all levels, especially by the feds and their "storm troopers" that are being formed, by the Obama Apparatus, in every federal department. When did you ever think that park rangers and the department of education would have military like SWAT teams?

Some people think freedom is still worth fighting for. Read some of this column by Kevin McCullough.

Why The Feds Chickened Out On A Nevada Ranch

........."Let me obliterate a bit of confusion here: the Obama administration attempted to go to war with a rancher in Nevada. Let me amplify a little bit of truth: They tucked tail and have returned home. And let me add a bit of clarity: they had no choice!........As the nation began to become familiar with the plight of the family of Cliven Bundy, many of us harkened back to another standoff in which the Federal government attempted to bully it's outcome: Waco, Texas and the Branch Davidian massacre".........

........"It is telling that in the Nevada case the feds pulled out so quickly, given all they had indicated they were willing to do to resolve the matter to their satisfaction. They had set up a perimeter around the Bundy's family land, ranch, and home. They had brought in extra artillery, dogs, and snipers. They were beginning the process of stealing more than 300 head of cattle that did not belong to them.............they did so--or so we were told--for the reason of protecting the desert tortoise. But then it was revealed that the Bureau of Land Management had shot far more desert tortoises than the Bundy cattle had even possibly destroyed. We were told they did it because the Bundys had broken federal laws by not paying what amounted to retroactive grazing fees to the federal government. But the Governor of the state of Nevada told us that Bundy had paid every ounce of state tax, met the state requirements, and their family had been improving the property more than 100 years previous.........finally we were allowed to know the connection between a communist Chinese wind/solar power plant and its connection to that senator named Harry Reid. Evidently a plan had been hatched to use the Bundy property for a solar farm and instead of paying the Bundys, someone, somewhere in the administration believed it was easier to just take what they wanted".........

That's right, this all came to pass because of one of the most contemptible, crooked, dishonest and miserable POS that is a member of the US Senate, who wanted to see his family make even more millions than they already have. They decided they would just us the federal powers that they commanded........in order to just take the land.

They were wrong!

There are some very specific reasons why "We the People" prevailed this time.

........"1. Technology - As the Bundy family members were abused, cameras captured it. Not television network cameras, but dozens of cell phone video devices that gave witness to a Bundy aunt being shoved to the ground, and a Bundy son being tazed. All of this while threatening protestors with dogs, brandished weapons and vehicles was captured, uploaded and made viral to the watching world...........2. States' Rights - As the drama unfolded it became clear that the Governor of Nevada, and the Sheriff of Clark County knew that Cliven Bundy's family had not only not broken any state law regarding the land, but that they had gone to the enth degree to insure compliance with Nevada laws on the property. The Governor and the Sheriff, to their credit, did not favor the feds as a more powerful party in the conflict. Though there must have been pressure from Senator Reid's office, the administration via the Bureau of Land Management, and local officials who were bought and sold like the Clark County Commissioner who told those coming to support the Bundys to have "funeral plans in place.".........3. Grassroots Response - As other incidents have transpired in the past, the amount of time it took honest information to reach the grassroots and thus the response to the action came to slow. In the massacre in Waco, most of the nation had been sold a single narrative from the limited media outlets covering the events. Similarly the events surrounding the abduction of Elian Gonzales from his family in Florida and deportation to Cuba took place in such a response vacuum that by the time Americans knew the real story, the damage was done. With the Bundy ranch, internet outlets by the dozen had competing information with the limited "official news" being released by the networks, and in most cases the alternative sources had it correct and usually a full day or so ahead of the news cycle. By the time afternoon drive hit, when the network news rooms in New York were preparing their first stories, talk radio audiences had already been dialing their elected officials in Washington demanding action..........The majority of Americans saw through the efforts to spin the story in Nevada. Couple that with the leadership failures that the American people view the administration responsible for, from Benghazi to the Affordable Care Act, all it took was the unedited video of federal agents tazing Bundy's son, followed by his pulling the wires from his chest and continuing to stand his ground for there to be comparisons made to the American revolution".........

http://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2014/04/13/why-the-feds-c...

Bruce, millions of us have watched these growing abuses of federal power for over 20 years now; American citizens have been murdered by the federales, over and over, with absolutely no punishment of any kind. Early in this incident, there was video showing the BLM and Park Ranger cop wannabes facing a small crowd in the road, including Bundy's son and daughter, and other family and friends. These amateur cops were standing there with guns and tasers pointed at the unarmed citizens, threatening dog bites and so on. They tasered Bundy's son and threw a daughter to the ground. They thought they won that round.

A few days later, at the battle of the Bunkerville bridges, these same "federal strongmen" were themselves under the barrels of some guns, a lot more than they had themeselves, and they knew fear as they cowered behind their trucks. They very much wanted to get out of there and out of danger. All tyrants are cowards when facing the same kind of thing they themselves like to dish out as often as they can. I wonder if any of them crapped their pants that day?

I hope so because the founders wanted the government to be in fear of it's citizens. These guys found out what that means.

WC

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
My point has been made!

My point has been made!

Abacus
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/14/2011 - 12:21pm
Can you clarify your point,

Can you clarify your point, Bruce? You posted above:

But listen to the rhetoric and the messages being communicated and is it any surprise ?
Not to me. Does it take away from the legitimate issues? Yes, it does.
This backs up what I have gotten from these threads. The "they will make us fight" ,has become by design
with such utterings to ,"we want to fight" !
Yet there are those who will go to any length to support that.

I am unsure of what you're saying here, are you saying the people in defense of Bundy's Ranch are the instigators? Are you saying they want to fight? Please provide proof of this if you think this is the case. Perhaps I am misreading your post, which is why I am asking for clarification.

I read this situation as, "These are people who will defend freedom to any length". I do not see these people as the aggressor but the last line of defense.

Something that has made no sense to me is the estimated cost of rounding up all these cattle, $3 Million. Doesn't that seem a bit excessive to anyone else? What would be the purpose and how could you possibly justify it when they claim he only owes a fraction of that. I don't know if I'm on-board with the whole Reid solar array theory since with the sheer volume of land the BLM manages, they could just relocate it.

Bruce Libby
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2006 - 7:08pm
Any length.

Any length.
Read Reaganite post.
Abacus no I am not going any further because I do not believe anyone would accept the point.
Ok one small attempt. One response answering Reaganites question could have sufficed.
But that is not in the cards.

Yes, the extra elements were instigators that was there intent IMO.

TMacKenzie
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/27/2012 - 11:55am
http://www.theblaze.com
TMacKenzie
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/27/2012 - 11:55am
And, oddly enough, this Right

And, oddly enough, this Right Wing website that posts excerpts from the "purged" BLM documents highlighted on Free Republic contains a record of the problems that Bundy's trespassing cattle have caused on both private and public land. Doesn't do a whole lot for Bundy's arguments.

http://toprightnews.com/?p=2422

Update: This is the FULL page from the BLM documents - as you can see, Free Republic left out a lot of reported incidents, conveniently. http://archive.today/nvlzr

TMacKenzie
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/27/2012 - 11:55am
From the Constitution of the

From the Constitution of the State of Nevada, written and adopted in 1864:

"Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States. . ."

Bundy's family (according to him) moved to the area in the 1880s.

Roger Ek
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 11/18/2002 - 1:01am
Reposted from Dutchman6:

Reposted from Dutchman6:

Monday, April 14, 2014
So much for a slow day. Just got off the phone with Ammon Bundy. BLM's big skedaddle.

When the Bundys and their friends went to collect the cattle and confronted the armed BLM thugs, Ammon says, the Clark County deputies did a great job of defusing the situation. The demand was given that BLM had a half hour to get out of the way, or the people were coming through. Within thirty minutes, vehicles began exiting the compound where the cattle roundup had been happening. Within an hour, all the BLM had run -- run, mind you -- to their vehicles and "unassed the AO" in a convoy that eventually amounted to over 100 vehicles. As has been reported, the crowd saluted them as they passed.
Left behind were trailers, generators, personal equipment scattered all over the ground and internal BLM documents left on the table where they had been branding the cattle. It was a great skedaddle, Ammon says. The BLM had to hire contractors to come back and clean up the mess.
I congratulated Ammon and told him that this was perhaps a pivotal moment in American history. He also agreed with me that it is impossible not to see the hand of God in all of this. I told him that it was my opinion that the empire would surely strike back, but that they would likely come at the Bundys and their supporters sideways next time. Still, it was a great victory, a pivotal moment, in the relationship between the federal government and the American people. Nothing will be quite the same after this, mostly because it has demonstrated to those whom the government would victimize that they only require someone with the guts to stand up to leviathan -- and the armed friends to back them up in the argument."

Abacus
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/14/2011 - 12:21pm
"Third. That the people

"Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States. . ."

I've seen people quoting that all day and they are taking it COMPLETELY out of context. Read the whole thing here.

That passage pertained to the TRANSFER FROM A TERRITORY TO A STATE, and that state was part of These United States, hence the part above it that reads “To enable the People of the Territory of Nevada to form a Constitution and State Government and for the admission of such State into the Union on an equal footing with the Original States,” It really couldn't get any simpler. It just goes to show you how the power of the internet can skew things so badly.

Left behind were trailers, generators, personal equipment scattered all over the ground and internal BLM documents left on the table where they had been branding the cattle. It was a great skedaddle, Ammon says. The BLM had to hire contractors to come back and clean up the mess.

Not according to the Bundy Ranch. The BLM left to diffuse the situation, nothing more, the incident is not over by a longshot. They left the equipment in place and are coordinating with local law enforcement to retrieve it when the situation has calmed down. The local Sheriff's department has stated they will only come back to retrieve the equipment, nothing more, and the Bundy's are fine with this. There are a number of OathKeeper's remaining on site and will enter into a rotation for protection. Ruby Ridge and Waco are fresh in mind where the real confrontation escalated after the initial tactical retreat. Presently all is quiet at the ranch but people everywhere are chiming in as to BLM and LE movements. The 1:00 PM gathering asked for by the Bundy's was for a press conference but even that was assumed to be a raid.
.

TMacKenzie
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/27/2012 - 11:55am
Here's the legal transcript

Here's the legal transcript of the case. (There is a reference to the Nevada Constitution and other relevant issues discussed.) Not only did Bundy not remove his cattle from the original territory covered by the grazing rights (the Bunkerville Allotment), he allowed his cattle to roam into the Gold Butte federal conservation area, a second trespass issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:United_States_v_Bundy_Cou...

ewv
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 9 hours ago
Joined: 04/19/2000 - 12:01am
"Disposition of the United

"Disposition of the United States" means that the Federal government, rather than anyone else in the former territory, would govern the disposition of the unowned land to settlers claiming it . It did not mean that the people of Nevada were conceding the land to socialist control as now promoted by anti-American progressive collectivists misrepresenting the history and documents of the acceptance of statehood.

ewv
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 9 hours ago
Joined: 04/19/2000 - 12:01am
Mon, 04/14/2014 - 2:55pm (new

TMacKenzie Mon, 04/14/2014: "Here's the legal transcript of the case. (There is a reference to the Nevada Constitution and other relevant issues discussed.) Not only did Bundy not remove his cattle from the original territory covered by the grazing rights (the Bunkerville Allotment), he allowed his cattle to roam into the Gold Butte federal conservation area, a second trespass issue."

Under collectivist government where private property rights are banned anyone who doesn't do as he is told under a system of bureaucratic permissions is a "trespasser" and "breaking the law". What do you think the protest is about? The "lawbreakers" sentenced to Siberia could not expect help from the Moscow "courts" and legal system either. Government is the law.

TMacKenzie
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/27/2012 - 11:55am
The Nevada Constitution makes

The Nevada Constitution makes it quite clear that all previously unappropriated lands will revert to ownership of the United States, Abacus. What is not clear about that? The man simply does not own the land, stopped paying for his grazing rights on the Allotment back in the 90s, and, in addition, has expanded the running of his cattle beyond the boundaries delineated by the original grazing rights onto abutting conservation land. I guess you are OK with that, but your logic escapes me.

ewv
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 9 hours ago
Joined: 04/19/2000 - 12:01am
It says "disposition" not

It says for "disposition" not permanent socialist ownership. The "logic" has been explained many times and you continue to ignore it.

TMacKenzie
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/27/2012 - 11:55am
ewv: "forever disclaiming

ewv: "forever disclaiming any right and title" is the operative phrase here, not "disposition." Although the meaning inherent in the word "disposition" in regard to land or real estate also includes transfer of ownership, use, develop, encumber, right to resell, etc.

Rebecca
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/07/2008 - 3:17pm
Now pay attention people,

Now pay attention people,
This is the side of the story that you are not hearing

Why Cliven Bundy Is Not Wrong- From A Fellow Rancher
Posted by Liberty On April 13, 2014 0 Comment

Why Clive Bundy isn’t WRONG.

Via:bundy saga Kena Lyle Gloeckner

There have been a lot of people criticizing Clive Bundy because he did not pay his grazing fees for 20 years. The public is also probably wondering why so many other cowboys are supporting Mr. Bundy even though they paid their fees and Clive did not. What you people probably do not realize is that on every rancher’s grazing permit it says the following: “You are authorized to make grazing use of the lands, under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management and covered by this grazing permit, upon your acceptance of the terms and conditions of this grazing permit and payment of grazing fees when due.” The “mandatory” terms and conditions go on to list the allotment, the number and kind of livestock to be grazed, when the permit begins and ends, the number of active or suspended AUMs (animal units per month), etc. The terms and conditions also list specific requirements such as where salt or mineral supplements can be located, maximum allowable use of forage levels (40% of annual growth), etc., and include a lot more stringent policies that must be adhered to. Every rancher must sign this “contract” agreeing to abide by the TERMS AND CONDITIONS before he or she can make payment. In the early 90s, the BLM went on a frenzy and drastically cut almost every rancher’s permit because of this desert tortoise issue, even though all of us ranchers knew that cow and desert tortoise had co-existed for a hundred+ years. As an example, a family friend had his permit cut by 90%. For those of you who are non ranchers, that would be equated to getting your paycheck cut 90%. In 1976 there were approximately 52 ranching permittees in this area of Nevada. Presently, there are 3. Most of these people lost their livelihoods because of the actions of the BLM. Clive Bundy was one of these people who received extremely unfair and unreasonable TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Keep in mind that Mr. Bundy was required to sign this contract before he was allowed to pay. Had Clive signed on the dotted line, he would have, in essence, signed his very livelihood away. And so Mr. Bundy took a stand, not only for himself, but for all of us. He refused to be destroyed by a tyrannical federal entity and to have his American liberties and freedoms taken away. Also keep in mind that all ranchers financially paid dearly for the forage rights those permits allow – - not rights to the land, but rights to use the forage that grows on that land. Many of these AUMS are water based, meaning that the rancher also has a vested right (state owned, not federal) to the waters that adjoin the lands and allow the livestock to drink. These water rights were also purchased at a great price. If a rancher cannot show beneficial use of the water (he must have the appropriate number of livestock that drinks and uses that water), then he loses that water right. Usually water rights and forage rights go hand in hand. Contrary to what the BLM is telling you, they NEVER compensate a rancher for the AUMs they take away. Most times, they tell ranchers that their AUMS are “suspended,” but not removed. Unfortunately, my family has thousands of “suspended” AUMs that will probably never be returned. And so, even though these ranchers throughout the course of a hundred years invested thousands(and perhaps millions) of dollars and sacrificed along the way to obtain these rights through purchase from others, at a whim the government can take everything away with the stroke of a pen. This is the very thing that Clive Bundy single-handedly took a stand against. Thank you, Clive, from a rancher who considers you a hero.

-Kena Lytle Gloeckner

http://www.libertyandlead.com/2014/04/13/why-cliven-bundy-is-not-wrong-f...

Also worth a further read:
http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/

And again more underhanded influence from Sen. Harry Reid:
http://undercoverporcupine.bangordailynews.com/2014/04/11/politics/nevad...

ewv
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 9 hours ago
Joined: 04/19/2000 - 12:01am
TMacKenzie Mon, 04/14/2014:

TMacKenzie Mon, 04/14/2014: "ewv: 'forever disclaiming any right and title' is the operative phrase here, not 'disposition' Although the meaning inherent in the word 'disposition' in regard to land or real estate also includes transfer of ownership, use, develop, encumber, right to resell, etc."

They were talking about the former territory no longer disposing of unowned land, which you keep leaving out, not individual land ownership. The disposition of unowned land was to be guided by the Federal government, as was the policy and practice of the time, and not anyone else. The left is taking the phrase "forever disclaiming any right and title" out of context, quoting isolated fragments as its "operative" technique. It was not a socialist manifesto "forever disclaiming any right and title" by individuals in favor of a permanent Federal kingdom. That notion came much later from the progressive statists under the influence of primarily German counter-Enlightenment ideology.

Islander
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 43 min ago
Joined: 02/13/2009 - 12:16pm
Ok, let me understand, 14

Ok, let me understand, 14 million dollars of EBT abuse in Maine, no big deal small percentage , political... 1.1 million owed for grazing fees and we have an armed confrontation?
Glad to see the government has its priorities straight.

woodcanoe
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/22/2005 - 1:01am
Harry Reid says it "Ain't

Harry Reid says it "Ain't over til it's over"!

........."RENO, Nev. (MyNews4.com & KRNV) -- Senate majority leader Harry Reid hasn't been very vocal about the cattle battle showdown in recent days, but says "it's not over.".........

........."Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over

http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/Sen-Reid-on-Cattle-Battle-Its-no...

Keep in mind that everything that Adolph Hitler did, during his years in power, were LEGAL too, under German law at that time. Decent, honest hard working American citizens are tired of corrupt politicians like Reid using the law to suit themselves and their evil anti-American agenda. Why they have not nailed the hide of this POS to a barn door, and let it dry in the sun, before now is beyond me. I cannot think of a more disreputable figure in American politics than this creature.

If Reid thinks this event was something, he needs to keep his eyes open as the movement has just started. The American people are a lot smarter than the treacherous lot in Washington DC thinks they are, as we will see.

WC

TMacKenzie
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/27/2012 - 11:55am
Well, I would venture to say

Well, I would venture to say that none of those EBT cheats racked up government benefits to the tune of $1,000,000 each. Bundy basically used the federal land abutting his property as an ATM machine for over 20 years.

(Also it's not $14 million dollars of EBT abuse - $14 million was identified as having been spent outside of the State of Maine - $7 million of that was in NH and $3 million was in MA. As to the rest of those far flung places, I say absolutely, round 'em up!)

Spider
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 06/16/2011 - 3:13pm
Islander gets it.

Islander gets it.

Pages

Log in to post comments