Who Does the Government protect?

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landry
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Who Does the Government protect?

As I read some of these posts, I am amazed that so many people think the government protects them. Our constitutional government in Washington is not able to defend itself. Look at the constitution and see just how large the government actually is. They do not defend the people, We The People defend them. The government people do not die in war. We The People die in war. The government does not and can not support itself. We the People support the government. All the government does in Washington is to fester like a dirty wound and get larger and larger and saps more and more of the strength of We The People. The same can be said of state and most local governments. When, if ever, are We The People going to take our country back? When, if ever, will we regain our freedom?
Bud

Gary
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Who Does the Government protect?

Our Government was created by the people, to be comprised of the people, and to exist for the people. Its legitimate purpose was to provide for the common defense and maintain law and order, and little or nothing more.

All rights on this earth originate with the individual. As individuals grouped together and formed a society, it became necessary to establish a means to protect the interests of those living in a society, which meant that they had to allow the society to exercise certain powers for the good of all living within the society. This is what our forefathers did when they created our Republic.

Therefore, the Constitution does not grant rights to the people, but the reverse; the people grant certain powers to government for the good of all, and make it clear that government may exercise only those powers specifically enumerated.

Sadly, our government has evolved into a separate entity unto itself, assuming powers that it has no legitimate authority to exercise, and with the main purpose of perpetuating itself at the expense of the people. And we, the people, have allowed this to happen.

Fortunately, the Declaration of Independence and Constitution recognize our right to self government, and if necessary, the right to restore or government to that of, by, and for the people. The bad news is, as you have pointed out, the people have yet to awaken to the fact that they or we have allowed our powers to be usurped.

As to when we the people will wake up, that remains an unsolved mystery. We can keep reminding people of their rights, and the dangers of allowing government to continue taking from the people that which rightfully belongs to them.

Thanks for posting this Bud.

Anonymous
Who Does the Government protect?

as for who the government protects...

in reality it protects itself.

Second of Four
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Who Does the Government protect?

Let us think about this a moment. in the begining, President George Washington refused a kingship, was elected president, and term-limited HIMSELF to two terms. He served his Nation, and returned to Private Life--AKA: REALITY. Now we have elected leaders who have made "their" Seat in Congress, or Legislature into a life-time career. EVERY time term limits are discussed, "we NEED experienced legislators, Senators, etc.", is recited, non-incumbants are at a discourageing disadvantage, so the "we have term-limits at the ballott box" chant holds no water. Political experience is gained by running for, and serving in "lesser" elected offices at the local level, and gaining name recogition for what you accomplish. We have now an entrenched Political Class of people enjoying incumbantcy, representing NO ONE but themselves, and anyone that they owe favors to. They live in an insulated Fantasy Land in Augusta, and Washington, unaware of the needs and desires of the people who pay their salaries, which are grossly disproportionate when compared to the wages of the Average Voter who sends them to office.

woodcanoe
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Who Does the Government protect?

I too am amazed at the people who think it is the government's job to "protect people" or "help people".

It would be my guess, just from observation over the years, that a majority of Americans believe this. On the recent AMG threads regarding "domestic surveillance" and the discussion of whether or not the President has "gone to far" it is amazing, and appalling to the Libertarian in me, to note how many people are quick to defend the government involvement in this type of surveillance. They totally believe that that is a proper job for big brother.

It has been said, and bears repeating, that those who are willing to give up some liberty in exhcange for security will have neither. If these folks would read history, and learn from it, they would see what a misguided idea it is. But many have fortgotten history or do not care a whit about it. They will be the losers eventually.

I like what Drew Carey has to say about it:

"Here's what TV sitcom star Drew Carey doesn't like: censorship, anti-smoking laws, drug laws, immigration laws, "stupid big government in general" -- and award shows. (They're "publicity stunts" for needy actors, he explains.) Here's what Drew Carey does like: freedom, competition, free minds, free markets, and -- he won't deny -- beer, dirty jokes, and gambling.

Those likes and dislikes tell you pretty much everything you need to know about Carey. He's not afraid to speak his mind. He's proud of his blue-collar sensibilities. And he's a libertarian.

Carey left no doubts about his political philosophy in a November 1997 interview with Reason magazine. He had a quick answer when asked, "What's your basic attitude toward government?" Carey said: "The less the better. As far as your personal goals are and what you actually want to do with your life, it should never have to do with the government. You should never depend on the government for your retirement, your financial security, for anything. If you do, you're screwed."

And more:

• On censorship: "What right does [a politician] have to tell me what I can and cannot watch? Change the channel if you don't like what's on TV!"

• On the free market: "Some people don't like competition because it makes them work harder, better. I'm competitive at everything. It's a natural driving force, a way of testing yourself, of measuring how you're doing. How can people not know that competition makes everything better?"

• On drug laws: "Liquor prohibition led to the rise of organized crime in America, and drug prohibition has led to the rise of the gang problems we have now."

• On government power: "P.J. O'Rourke once said the government has passed enough laws -- it should just stop. It oversteps its bounds so often. Giving it a little bit of power is like getting a little bit pregnant..."

• On freedom versus security: "I think a lot of people are afraid of freedom. They want their lives to be controlled, to be put into a box... People like that cradle-to-grave concept because it says you don't have to think too much, you don't have to worry too much, because someone else is looking out for you. But that also means you can't do as much as you want. Why should someone else put a limit on how much fun I can have; how much I can accomplish?"

landry
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Who Does the Government protect?

We have yet to hear from the big government people and the Timid Tommies.
Bud

woodcanoe
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Who Does the Government protect?

A good question to ask would be this: If the Republicans gained majority power in the State of Maine would they cut spending?

I don't believe it, despite all that is said on AMG and elsewhere, as they like the power of big government also.

Unfortunately for some of us the defenders of big government either work for it or profit from it in one way or another. The last thing they would ever do is anything to change the satus quo.

They could defend it but only with emotion as it cannot be defended with logic.

In any case I am not going to sit in front of my screen patiently waiting.

Michael Vaughan
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Who Does the Government protect?

"Big government types, Timid Tommys"

Well, I don't think I can be accused of being from either of those groups, as I do belive in a much smaller government.

However, with the Constitutional mandate of a Navy and the ability to raise an army, I believe the federal government is reasonably expected to [color=red]protect[/color] American Citizens from enemy invasion.

With the establishment of a judicial system and state penal codes, I believe the citizens expect to be [color=red]protected[/color] from violent criminals and sexual predators.

Of course they aren't particularly good at the second one.

Gary
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Who Does the Government protect?

[quote="woodcanoe"]I too am amazed at the people who think it is the government's job to "protect people" or "help people".
On freedom versus security: "I think a lot of people are afraid of freedom. They want their lives to be controlled, to be put into a box... People like that cradle-to-grave concept because it says you don't have to think too much, you don't have to worry too much, because someone else is looking out for you. But that also means you can't do as much as you want. Why should someone else put a limit on how much fun I can have; how much I can accomplish?"[/quote]

Bingo!

The social programs of the New Deal did more damage to our country than the bombing of Pearl Harbor or the terrorist attacks on the Twin Towers and Pentagon:

[i]"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."[b]-- James Madison[/b]

"…of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people…" [b]-- Alexander Hamilton[/b][/i]

landry
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Who Does the Government protect?

Micheal, The government does not seem to be very good at the first either. We have had an invasion of millions of illegal aliens, with no one knowing how many potential terrorists were coming in with them, and the president and the congress has done nothing to stop them. Our present GOVERNMENT is of no good use except to themselves.
Bud

knucklehead
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Who Does the Government protect?

Remove taxes from payroll deduction and require citizens to pay by check (no electronic trasfers) and we would have a revolution overnight at every level of government.

Bob Stone
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Who Does the Government protect?

I would remind the good posters on this thread that the snooping involves:

1. persons with known AQ connections
2. carrying out cross-border conversations
3. with persons offshore.

In my opinion, the NSA can listen in [b]all they want[/b] on these bastards.

landry
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Who Does the Government protect?

Bob, I would like to remind you that millions of honest tax-payers conversations are being listened to in the attempt to find a miniscule number of terrorists calls. Do you really believe that any one wanting to commit a terrorist act would use such an obvious means of communication? If these people are that stupid, why don't we have OBL. You will eventually find out for yourself that "when a government cannot protect it's citizens, it subdues them".
Bud.

Second of Four
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Who Does the Government protect?

The only thing Government Employees--elected, appointed, and hired--are interested in protecting are their own jobs.

Bob Stone
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Who Does the Government protect?

Bud...

"I would like to remind you that millions of honest tax-payers conversations are being listened to in the attempt to find a miniscule number of terrorists calls."

With all due respect, I do not believe this to be the case.

I think we have covered the technology that is utilized to sniff these days. I don't know this for a fact, but I am supposing that digital data is being scanned by computer programs for strings indicating certain AQ voice patterns, IP addresses, key words and the like.

Feds are not sitting outside the miscreants houses or apartments in white vans, sipping bad coffee and moshing down powdered sugar donuts while thumbing through dog eared copies of Playboy with headsets on.

Bob

landry
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Who Does the Government protect?

Bob, And with all due respect, I must disagree withyou. Even Ron Paul, a respected republican member of the House of Representatives has said they are listening to millions of overseas calls and TRYING to pick out the bad ones. So far as I have heard the only information on terrorist activities they have prevented has come from reports from foreign countries. Our government seems to be so overgrown and bloated, they keep getting in each others way. They are unable to even serve the American people in time of disaster. They cannot even get buses to people in need, when the buses are already in the city in need.
Bud

Pedro
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Who Does the Government protect?

Two inescapable facts:
[list]
1. Politicians are always self-serving. Don’t trust a politician to protect you.

2. Government is always inefficient. Don’t trust government to protect you well. [/list:u]

But the government’s legitimate function [b] is [/b] to protect our rights to life, liberty and property. (I’ve already conceded that this will be poorly done.)

Trying to limit the reach of government by “throwing the rascals out” is a waste of time. The only politicians that will ever be elected are the same self-serving, self-promoting types we have always had.

If we are to complain about government – and we should – we should devote our efforts to repealing those laws that do not bear on protection from economic, social, foreign, and criminal predators.

And this is where we’re screwed. There is simply no way to do it. What would you suggest, revolution? How would that work?

woodcanoe
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Who Does the Government protect?

How are PETA and Greenpeace connected to AQ and Osama Bin Laden?

landry
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Who Does the Government protect?

Woodcanoe, I am unaware of any connection. If you are aware of any I would like to be clued in.
Bud

Bob Stone
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Who Does the Government protect?

Bud...

Can you post a source on Ron Paul stating that?

Bob

woodcanoe
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Who Does the Government protect?

Various news stories recently have noted that both PETA and Greenpeace have been investigated also by this type of surveillance. I saw news story references to the fact that the Feds considered them "terrorists". I think it would be very interesting to know ALL the folks that are considered by the Feds to be "terrorists".

Robert
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Who Does the Government protect?

[quote="Bob Stone"]Bud...

Can you post a source on Ron Paul stating that?

Bob[/quote]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spend some time on Rons site

Domestic Surveillance and the Patriot Act

December 26, 2005

Recent revelations that the National Security Agency has conducted broad surveillance of American citizens' emails and phone calls raise serious questions about the proper role of government in a free society. This is an important and healthy debate, one that too often goes ignored by Congress.

Public concerns about the misnamed Patriot Act are having an impact, as the Senate last week refused to reauthorize the bill for several years. Instead Congress will be back in Washington next month to consider many of the Act's most harmful provisions.

Of course most governments, including our own, cannot resist the temptation to spy on their citizens when it suits government purposes. But America is supposed to be different. We have a mechanism called the Constitution that is supposed to place limits on the power of the federal government. Why does the Constitution have an enumerated powers clause, if the government can do things wildly beyond those powers-- such as establish a domestic spying program? Why have a 4th Amendment, if it does not prohibit government from eavesdropping on phone calls without telling anyone?

We're told that September 11 th changed everything, that new government powers like the Patriot Act are necessary to thwart terrorism. But these are not the most dangerous times in American history, despite the self-flattery of our politicians and media. This is a nation that expelled the British, saw the White House burned to the ground in 1814, fought two world wars, and faced down the Soviet Union. September 11th does not justify ignoring the Constitution by creating broad new federal police powers. The rule of law is worthless if we ignore it whenever crises occur.

The administration assures us that domestic surveillance is done to protect us. But the crucial point is this: Government assurances are not good enough in a free society. The overwhelming burden must always be placed on government to justify any new encroachment on our liberty. Now that the emotions of September 11th have cooled, the American people are less willing to blindly accept terrorism as an excuse for expanding federal surveillance powers. Conservatives who support the Bush administration should remember that powers we give government today will not go away when future administrations take office.

Some Senators last week complained that the Patriot Act is misunderstood. But it's not the American public's fault nobody knows exactly what the Patriot Act does. The Act contains over 500 pages of detailed legalese, the full text of which was neither read nor made available to Congress in a reasonable time before it was voted on- which by itself should have convinced members to vote against it. Many of the surveillance powers authorized in the Act are not clearly defined and have not yet been tested. When they are tested, court challenges are sure to follow. It is precisely because we cannot predict how the Patriot Act will be interpreted and used in future decades that we should question it today.

[url]http://www.house.gov/paul/legis.shtml[/url]

landry
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Who Does the Government protect?

Robert, Thank you. Bob?

JIMV
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Who Does the Government protect?

[quote="landry"]Bob, I would like to remind you that millions of honest tax-payers conversations are being listened to in the attempt to find a miniscule number of terrorists calls. Do you really believe that any one wanting to commit a terrorist act would use such an obvious means of communication? If these people are that stupid, why don't we have OBL. You will eventually find out for yourself that "when a government cannot protect it's citizens, it subdues them".
Bud.[/quote]

Sorry, I have to chime in here...those millions are being 'listened to' in the same manner your computer is scanned for virus's or spyware....No human is involved at all UNLESS some problem is triggered. Your millions becomes hundreds in seconds and even then, most would simply go to a stronger software before ever being seen by anyone in government.

Does the spyware program in your computer "listen into" your traffic and work??

JIMV
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Who Does the Government protect?

[quote="woodcanoe"]How are PETA and Greenpeace connected to AQ and Osama Bin Laden?[/quote]

Only with the idea that terror is terror and those that support it are our enemies...

Was there a point to the question?

Bob Stone
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Who Does the Government protect?

Bud...

If this is what you are referring to when you reference "listening in"....

[b]Recent revelations that the National Security Agency has conducted broad surveillance of American citizens' emails and phone calls raise serious questions about the proper role of government in a free society[/b]

it does not change my view of the NSA program whatsoever.

The snooping, if I am to believe what I have read, is not [b]broad[/b]. It is very specific and you have to have done something suspicious to have made the list. You have to have been identified as a person with connections to AQ. And then, you have to be in contact with someone overseas.

Don't let Ron Paul mislead you. We have looked at about 2,000 out of 290,000,000 people, according to FISA records. I don't call that [b]broad[/b].

knucklehead
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Who Does the Government protect?

I have read that domestic activists with monetary or other resource ties to groups that do commit illeagal acts are being investigated - and rightly so.

I think if anyone is truly interested in the connection, they only need "follow the money" from groups such as PeTA to ELF and other violent domestic groups.

As I have decided it is not my job to drag people who are determined to remain ignorant kicking and screaming into the "light", I post no links.

Links and connections are easily found....think "useful idiots"....just like the war protestors in the Senate and other places.

knucklehead
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Who Does the Government protect?

[u]Presidential Oath of Office:[/u]
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

[u]Oath of Office for the Vice President, Secretary of State, and other federal employees:[/u]
"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

Note [i][b]against all enemies, foreign or domestic[/i][/b].

woodcanoe
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Who Does the Government protect?

[quote="JIMV"][quote="woodcanoe"]How are PETA and Greenpeace connected to AQ and Osama Bin Laden?[/quote]

Was there a point to the question?[/quote]

Yes. I would like to know just who the Feds consider to be "terrorists" or "our enemy".

Who are THEY?

Does PETA want to hurt me and you? Does Greenpeace? How?

JIMV
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Who Does the Government protect?

If they took that too seriously, 1/3 of congress would be in jail. :wink:

Robert
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Who Does the Government protect?

Maybe they should be in jail Jim.

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