Yes on 1, Argument

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Tony Bessey
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Yes on 1, Argument

I just had lunch with a buddy today and he asked me if my stance on Question 1 was based on religion or some other basis. I told him it was based on fact. One point everyone here fails to see and the Religious crowd is not using is very powerful. Maine is one of the gay friendliest states in the union. THat is well touted in many pubications. IF we have so much descrimination, why would Maine be so popular?

Tony

Frostman
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Yes on 1, Argument

Lots of gay trees and moose?

Catherine
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Yes on 1, Argument

I just put a sign in the back window of my car that says:

[size=24]YES ON 1[/size]
[size=24]MAINE [u]DOESN'T[/u] DISCRIMINATE![/size][/u]

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

Most Mainers don't discriminate...however some do. Just a few months back a woman won a gender discrimination law suit here in the state.

A number of cases of discrimination towards gays just were documented in the study by the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence. Clearly, discrimination against gays does happen.

Vote no to support stopping discrimination here in the state.

That is why I have a lawn sign that says please vote no on question one....

it is about fairness that's all.

Al Amoling
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Yes on 1, Argument

[quote="charlotte"]Most Mainers don't discriminate...however some do. Just a few months back a woman won a gender discrimination law suit here in the state.

A number of cases of discrimination towards gays just were documented in the study by the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence. Clearly, discrimination against gays does happen.

Vote no to support stopping discrimination here in the state.

That is why I have a lawn sign that says please vote no on question one....

it is about fairness that's all.[/quote]

If discrimination is rampant why have there be no cases reported from Portland?

Catherine
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Yes on 1, Argument

[quote]Its author, Stephen Wessler, said half of the 63 incidents detailed in the report occurred in the workplace and involved harassment, firings, refusals to hire and changes in terms of employment. Most of the other incidents were in the areas of either public accommodations or education.[/quote]

[url]http://www.wmtw.com/news/5134417/detail.html?rss=port&psp=news[/url]

I wouldn't call that enough of an epidemic to pass a law.

Furthermore... these are anecdotal stories. What concerns me is that this is not about fairness. If it were about fairness the law would state that nobody can discriminate against anyone for any reason. That would be fair.

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

Laws help curb behavior Al...In addition, Portland...a progressive city is not a great metric for the state. Clearly, there are much less tolerant areas once you leave Portland.

Catherine...gays are a group that have been discriminated against for years. A vote NO is a vote against discrimination.

Catherine
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Yes on 1, Argument

I would bet that the ugly face a lot more discrimination in general.

The law actually discriminates on its own by singling out one specific class. For true equality there should be no discrimination against anyone, period.

And no, I'm not ugly. :)

Al Amoling
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Yes on 1, Argument

[quote="charlotte"]Laws help curb behavior Al...In addition, Portland...a progressive city is not a great metric for the state. Clearly, there are much less tolerant areas once you leave Portland.

Catherine...gays are a group that have been discriminated against for years. A vote NO is a vote against discrimination.[/quote]

It may not be a great metric but Portland is a large city so why NO cases?

eagleisland
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Yes on 1, Argument

[quote="Catherine8679"][quote]Its author, Stephen Wessler, said half of the 63 incidents detailed in the report occurred in the workplace and involved harassment, firings, refusals to hire and changes in terms of employment. Most of the other incidents were in the areas of either public accommodations or education.[/quote]

[url]http://www.wmtw.com/news/5134417/detail.html?rss=port&psp=news[/url]

I wouldn't call that enough of an epidemic to pass a law.

Furthermore... these are anecdotal stories. What concerns me is that this is not about fairness. If it were about fairness the law would state that nobody can discriminate against anyone for any reason. That would be fair.[/quote]

And unenforceable to boot.

Catherine is quite correct. The alleged "study" is purely anecdotal. It does not appear to be based on anything related to actual investigation into the claims. I've learned this, over the years: if one believes someone else is going to slight them, for whatever reason, you can bet they'll perceive being slighted (I see this in my own family all the time, and we're a thoroughly homogeneous bunch).

I will vote to reject the law because I don't like the sneaky way the whole thing was handed down. The dems kept it in their pocket until the last minute and then rammed it through before there was any chance for debate. It was a complete abuse of process that flew in the face of the majority of Maine voters. And I say this as someone who has absolutely no problem with gays and lesbians, and who has actually voted FOR gay rights initiatives in the past.

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

Catherine....hey, go to the state house and petition.

However, I do think that to some ignorant people gays are looked at much worse than ugly people....lmao.

Al...I do not know Portland's record. However, I do know that the cases reported to the Center were very detailed....they prove the need for this law in the state.

deadbeat
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Yes on 1, Argument

I'm a Republican I'm voting no.

Catherine
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Yes on 1, Argument

Just look at employment! People are often denied jobs due to their "presentation."

Regarding petitioning... my point is that we don't need more laws, but if you want to pass a discrimination law, why single out one class of people over another?

What's wrong with passing a law that nobody can discriminate against anyone for any reason? Wouldn't that be even MORE equal? :)

Robert
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Yes on 1, Argument

[quote="charlotte"]
A number of cases of discrimination towards gays just were documented in the study by the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence. Clearly, discrimination against gays does happen.

[/quote]

Charlotte, I read the article and did not see any documented cases by a clearly biased organization. Yes Charlotte, biased. The Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence is far from neutral. Just because a gay person feels he/she was discriminated against, doesn't make for a documented case.

I have asked you for cases over and over, yet you produce none. Just give one legitimate case in Maine. :?

Catherine
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Yes on 1, Argument

You know, one time I was at a restaurant with a bunch of my girlfriends and we got TERRIBLE service. I am telling you, they hated me for being a woman.

Man, I should sue for gender based discrimination with my accomodation, and also harassment. After all, I felt harassed.

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

Robert...I have listed cases on other threads over and over.

The center is a non-profit organization....they have a number of cases.

Robert if you witnessed discrimination against a gay person...would you even think that was discrimination? lol

Catherine
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Yes on 1, Argument

Sure, they are a non-prof and the number of anecdotal cases is exactly 63. Not exactly an epidemic warranting a new law!!!!!!!

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

Catherine..you can have your opinion...even if it is wrong..lmao. :lol:

Robert
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Yes on 1, Argument

[quote="charlotte"]Robert...I have listed cases on other threads over and over.

[/quote]

No you have not. Give me names, places and dates, not vague references. I want to research them! :?:

Catherine
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Yes on 1, Argument

[quote="charlotte"]Catherine..you can have your opinion...even if it is wrong..lmao. :lol:[/quote]

No, I have the story from the Center... and their case is VERY SHAKY!

Now, I gotta go home now!

Weeeeeeeeeeeee

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

Robert...

Brad Nadeau's Story

Senator Hobbins, Representative Pelletier-Simpson, Honorable members of the Judiciary Committee. My name is Brad Nadeau. I am originally from Millinocket and am now a resident of Bangor. I am 26 years old. I am here today to ask you to support LD 1196. I am a gay man and I was fired from my job because of my sexual orientation. Please do not allow this to happen to one more LGBT citizen in Maine.

In April 2002 I was employed by The Varney Agency, Inc. in Bangor in the area of reception and public service. In May I had a meeting with my supervisor who told me I was doing well in my job. I was never told that I was not doing my job properly and in fact, I took on the task to train a new employee who was hired a week or two after I was.

Then on June 2nd my partner picked me up at work and we went out for lunch together. When he brought me back to my office, he kissed me goodbye in the parking lot. As I exited the car I saw that an executive from the agency had seen us kiss goodbye. I thought nothing more of it until I noticed that there were meetings taking place behind closed doors. Finally, at the end of the day, I was called into a meeting where the same executive was present and I was told that I was being fired because my work was not satisfactory.

The Varney Agency has a policy stating that the company is "committed to providing a work environment that is free of discrimination." The company also has a policy that calls for progressive discipline which states, in part, that "the progressive discipline system is intended to give employees advance notice, whenever possible, of problems with their conduct or performance in order to provide them an opportunity to correct any problems. Normally progressive discipline involves verbal counseling and one or more written warnings before an employee is terminated." The Varney Agency obviously chose to overlook their own policies when they fired me without any warning at all.

I always thought that if I did a good job, I would be safe in my employment. I now understand that it is acceptable in Maine for a person to be fired because of his or her sexual orientation regardless of how well that person does their job. I made the decision not to be "out" to my fellow workers when I went to Varney Insurance and even that didn't help me keep my job. Thank you for listening to my story and please support LD 1196. All of Maine citizens deserve to be judged on their ability and not their sexual orientation.

After you read this one...let me know...I will PM you with a few more.

Thanks.

debater
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Yes on 1, Argument

I read the article in the paper today also.

My thoughts:

First of all, there were only 3 cases mentioned. How many gays were actually interviewed for the study and where did they live? How many of these individuals were coerced into making statements that could be interpreted a certain way so the study could claim what they wanted to prove whether it really exists or not?

Second, one of the cases dealt with a transgender individual wanting to gain employment at a nonprofit agency. What I would need to know is what organization was he applying to work for? Why would I want to know that? Simply, I do not believe that gays or transgender individuals should be working with children. Why? Let me provide an example.

Would you hire a gay person who applied to be a gym teacher. Then let me ask, would you want a man walking into your daughter's (or a woman into your son's) locker room while they were changing? I know that I wouldn't. And hiring a gay person would be no different.

Lastly, I do not belieive that Maine is as discriminatory as people perceive. I am not saying that it doesn't exist, but I feel that it is a smaller percentage than what is being purported.

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

Simply, I do not believe that gays or transgender individuals should be working with children.

This is a clear example why we need this law.

debater
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Yes on 1, Argument

Then you are discriminating against gays arent' you? After all you are denying them employment.

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

I quoted you...

Catherine
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Yes on 1, Argument

Ok, so we have 1 case, Mr. Nadeau. It's his word against Varney's.

I don't see how one case can possibly constitute an entire law!!!!!!

What happened was unfortunate, however, we don't have Varney Agency's side of the story here.

Also, there is a good point there made about gay gym teachers. Having a gay man walk into a boy's locker room really is no different from a female teacher walking into a boy's locker room.

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

I have a few more..no worries Catherine.

The statement about teachers is just ignorant.

democrat
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Yes on 1, Argument

I am undecided on this issue. I have gay friends and like them and respect them. I despise those who hate them or even dislike them based on their sexual orientation. On the other hand, as a business person, I feel I should have the right to hire or fire people for a variety of reasons. Charlotte, your post re: the testimony is a case in point. Here is a guy who represents a business. He is openly gay and kisses another man in public at the business site. A business owner understands that some of his customers and/or potential customers will find this offensive, and it could affect their decision to do or not do business with that company. I can understand why he would not want his business and other employees to suffer because of the actions of this man. He should be able to protect his business interests and fire the guy (though he should have been warned, but that just puts the businessman at risk of a lawsuit). I also understand a landlord may not want to deal with issues that could arise if a homosexual couple rented an apartment, especially if the other tenants objected or worse, were inclined to act on their anti-gay sentiments through any number of means. Why should he want that hassle? Please don't try to compare homosexual discrimination to racial discrimination. The former is a behavior and the latter is a condition that cannot be avoided. This law is trying to protect a behavior that some people, on religious grounds, find objectionable. Though for myself, I'm more likely to discriminate against fat people than gay people. Thank goodness for anonymity.

MarkSeger
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Yes on 1, Argument

MM

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

You have a right to your opinion Dem...no problem.

Religion is action based...we cannot discriminate against a person for their religious belief. The company that fired this man was wrong. It is like a company that hires a muslim...this muslim wears traditional muslim dress. After 911 this employer is afraid it will hurt his business so he fires the employee...(he does not want any anti muslim actions to take place at his company).

All that I have discribed is discrimination...that is just plain wrong.

charlotte
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Yes on 1, Argument

MM...the woman won on gender, not on sexuality....

I hope you read that part. Glad you voted..it is a right of an American. Sorry you voted to keep discrimination alive and well in Maine.

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